why are our veins asymmetrical?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Soldat Du Christ, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. Soldat Du Christ

    Soldat Du Christ ONI Agent

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    https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/23n98f/why_are_our_veins_asymmetrical/

    "Veins aren't exactly formed randomly, but there are random elements in how they are formed. Identical twins will have different vasculature, for example.

    This is because the body doesn't have a blueprint in the traditional sense, it is procedurally generated. Limb buds set up gradients of hormones that tell bones where to stop and start.

    Many blood vessels are set in stone, like the aorta and vena cava, but farther out the vessels are procedurally generated, so left and right end up similar but different.

    Veins do not move based on need."
     
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  2. Goat

    Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
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    lazy devs
     
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  3. qrrby

    qrrby Waggly piece of flesh
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    Like water, they follow the path of least resistance
     
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  4. Ascend Hyperion

    Ascend Hyperion Speaker for The Dead
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    We're in 2017, Soldat is livin' in 3017
     
  5. Box Knows

    Box Knows Spartan I

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    This man has smoked too much weed
     
  6. MULLERTJE

    MULLERTJE ROGUE

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    Uhmm.....
     
  7. PharmaGangsta1

    PharmaGangsta1 Dr. Deathpit

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    this is so ****ing subjective i just like cant wtf
     
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  8. Connie

    Connie Bio-Hacker
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    Soldat hitting a running start on those social justice issues from 2117
     
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  9. Kurismic

    Kurismic Spartan III
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    Let's go a step smaller and discuss Asymmetric DNA Replication:

    Traditionally (and I'll try to keep most of this in "laymen's terms") DNA was thought to replicate itself through a symmetric process involving the splitting of a "principle" strand of DNA into a set of two halves - a lagging strain and a leading strain. These strains then replicate themselves simultaneously and recombine with their differing, respective partners to form two new strands. This process then repeats itself as long as the host organism lives (for the most part, but that's another topic). This was the standard ideology behind the replication of DNA, but new evidence challenges that postulate. I'll now insert a video link that kind of does a fair job at a basic explanation of the process, but more importantly contains a snip-it of the videographic evidence purporting to the newly discovered asymmetric replication method as demonstrated via E.Coli.

    This footage can be explained in part due to the polarization states of DNA strands and, possibly (as I see it), could relate to the state of a particular nucleotide not existing within an interactive proximity to a polymerase molecule at a given moment of replication, which may cause the process to cessate by necessity. On a molecular level, a solely homogeneous solution couldn't exist, regardless of concentration in the solute. At some scale, there will always be varying concentrations of one component or another. This might affect replicative rates and symmetry.

    Additionally, the affinity of a particular nucleotide to the matching reactive state of the polymerase is distinctly unknown. If strongly attractive, this could cause localized concentrations of that particular component for a brief amount of time, at a minimum until normal molecular diffusion spreads the concentration back out to what may be considered standard levels.

    For example: If the polymerase is attracting a nucleotide (IE: Adenine) and is doing so over a significant molecular distance, it is reasonable to assume multiple molecules of the nucleotide would be drawn to the polymerase, however the reaction must occur with only one to avoid mutation (now we are getting to some interesting genetic experimentation), which in turn leaves behind a surplus concentration localized at that point, which could slow the overall reaction rates within the strand and, on a smaller scale, the next matching nucleotide awaiting pairing and replication.

    Also, who even knows if this attractive force supplied by the polymerase is uniform across all appropriate pairing nucleotides.

    Tl;dr - Chaos and Entropy
     
  10. Soldat Du Christ

    Soldat Du Christ ONI Agent

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    Thank you for sharing.

    Can you think of any observable example of unguided chaos giving rise to order? Since you brought up entropy i'm just curious
     
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  11. WARHOLIC

    WARHOLIC Cartographer
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    Take a look at our solar system
     
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  12. Kurismic

    Kurismic Spartan III
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    I don't know if I'd consider gravitational and electrostatic attraction as chaotic or entropic in a traditional sense because, as we have defined them, they are quite reproducible and predictable (assuming you reference planetary formation, because people tend to reference that often). I'd say something much more chaotic and intriguing on a larger scale that the effects of which can be readily observed would be proton (and other "particles") misdirection and redirection within stars. Protons in our sun can basically "bounce around" for hundreds of years inside a star before being emitted as measurable light. This path is completely arbitrary, which is quite cool.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2017 ---
    Yeah, look at my reply to Warholic. That chaotic disorder gives rise to a sustainable and regular luminous energy output.
     
  13. WARHOLIC

    WARHOLIC Cartographer
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    I used our solar system as an example of order through entropy because there are many states that the formation of a solar system could take on. Just look at other solar systems in comparison to ours, there are literally billions of different outcomes for it take on and I believe that ours is uniquely special because it allowed life to be created on Earth. I would consider Earth a form of order through guided chaos because I find life to be quite rare in the grand scheme of things. If the conditions of our environment were changed by a fraction of a percent (ie. Gravity), life as we know it would not exist. Earth's atmosphere is composed of 21% oxygen, if it were 25% fires would spontaneously erupt, if it were 15% we would suffocate. All of this reminds me of how valuable, privileged and rare life is :)
     
  14. Kurismic

    Kurismic Spartan III
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    I mean, WE would suffocate in our current state, yes, but if any altered percentage was the initial atmospheric composition or gravitic state or whatever then life would almost have certainly survived and surpassed that small differential. Regardless, the perspective of order or chaos depends upon the individual. Whereas you see life being an example of order from chaos, I see it as a prime media for chaos. I believe the entry state of the universe, whatever it may have been, to have been ideally orderly - as time had yet to progress and allow the evolution of chaos. In that instantaneous moment of existence/nonexistence (dependent upon one's views), I witness a calmness in calamity. Chaos can only exist in the presence of Order and vice versa. Remove both, and everything is as boring and trivial as Goldleaf hehe :3
     
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  15. MULLERTJE

    MULLERTJE ROGUE

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    I don't believe life is rare at all. There can be millions of planets with life in this galaxy alone. Heck there can be life in this solar system. But I do believe this galaxy is way too big to really comprehend is vastness, let alone the universe.

    We are going to find numerous earthlike planets in the next 50 years and maybe even more remarkable stuff.
     
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  16. Soldat Du Christ

    Soldat Du Christ ONI Agent

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    "I'd say something much more chaotic and intriguing on a larger scale that the effects of which can be readily observed would be proton (and other "particles") misdirection and redirection within stars. Protons in our sun can basically "bounce around" for hundreds of years inside a star before being emitted as measurable light. This path is completely arbitrary, which is quite cool."

    Where exactly is the chaos in this? If chaos is defined as confution and non-orderly that is. I interpret the "missdirection and redirection" as a negetive + a positive = + essentialy... And arbitraryness doesn't neccecarily equate to chaos unless i'm not taking somthing else into account?
     
  17. Kurismic

    Kurismic Spartan III
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    Misdirecrion and redirection are the same thing, just different words for it. It's chaotic in its randomness.
     

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