Fracture V. Alpha

Discussion in 'WIP - Works In Progress' started by CaptnSTFU, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. CaptnSTFU

    CaptnSTFU Promethean
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    This goes along with my post the other day, when i set out to re create this map i never finished i thought to myself. Self what might a map look like if Lockout banged Guardian and had a baby? My self replied and said Fractured (subject to change) keep in mind this is a work in progress and i plan on making 2 different versions with 2 very different layouts play testing and either releasing both or just trashing one and keeping the best one.

    The goal for this map is to take the best parts from both maps (at least in my opinion ) and make it a good competitive style asymmetrical arena map. You will notice a few distinct locations with a few altered locations making it a new breed all its own.

    UPDATE: Moved from WIP to Map preview lol iv finished it for the most part updated spawns edited blue lift to be more to the original, added KOTH, Oddball, just need to set up one flag.

    Overview of the entire map:

    [​IMG]

    Up close of BR tower (top half)

    [​IMG]

    Bottom BR lift area

    [​IMG]

    Blue lift tower (top half)

    [​IMG]

    Bottom Blue

    [​IMG]

    Sniper tower

    [​IMG]

    Back sniper (and yes those are stairs)

    [​IMG]

    "Green" area

    [​IMG]

    "Mini Green" elbow (sorry about the pic it looks way better in game promise)

    [​IMG]

    Bottom Mid

    [​IMG]

    And Library (yes sword is right below it like it was)

    [​IMG]


    I know some of the LOS needs to be changed up, library needs to be lifted to add the right LOS to blue, bottom mid may need more tweaking as well.

    I'll be testing this today around 6 pm GMT so if you wana play hit me up.



    Also anyone wanting to help test / possibly co forge this or the 2nd variant message me and i'll see i will defiantly need testers but i like to forge alone most of the time so idk.

    PS. thanks for taking the time forgehub means alot.
     
    #1 CaptnSTFU, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  2. UberAURORA

    UberAURORA Legendary

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    This looks very interesting, I will definitely take a look when your finished.
     
  3. MockKnizzle008

    MockKnizzle008 Forerunner
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    I'd like to see you create more of your own structures instead of simply ripping buildings from Lockout and Guardian. More of a re-imagining of the maps as opposed to just Frankensteining them together.
     
  4. CaptnSTFU

    CaptnSTFU Promethean
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    The reason I'm doing this is to smash the
    maps together, iv made plenty of asetrical maps that don't use pre existing structure style but that's the whole point for this maps 2 variations is to combine guardian and lockout. Trust me when I say I'll have a ton of new original designs to come but for now I'm finishing what I started a out 2 years ago.
     
  5. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    It just seems like everyone and there mother is either making...

    A.) Remakes
    B.) Hybrids of remakes

    Not many out there seem to have the talent to make an original map that doesn't heavily resemble some of the most famous maps out there, which is boring.
     
    #5 Fenix Hulk, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  6. Fauch

    Fauch Promethean
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    I'm totally confused now XD. also you say "out there" a lot.

    maybe it's because of the forgotten treasure contest? or maybe people would make a lot of remakes anyway?
    it's funny that many "original" maps are heavily inspired by lockout or guardian :)
     
  7. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    I used the term "out there" for Original Halo Maps and if a map resembles any Halo map it doesn't make it that original, does it... Of course there's going to be remakes becuase of the forgotten treasure contest but that seems like the only thing some people can do is create remakes or, like I said, hybrids of remakes resembling one or more original maps. I could make up a huge list of maps on here that are not "remakes" for the forgotten treasure contest but do resemble original halo maps, this is one of them.

    There is a difference between skill and talent. Skill is your ability to perform a task well, i.e. forging. So remaking a map or resembling a map takes skill, but not a whole lot of talent.

    Talent is a natural ability, an artist for say. A talented person can come up with their own designs. I understand going off previous designs for inspiration, but completely recreating parts of original maps takes no talent, as I said before.

    If you're going to try and create a original map (not a remake), do not recreate sections from original maps. It's boring and unoriginal and pretty much copying some one else's work, changing some stuff, and releasing it as your own work. That's what I mean fauch.
     
    #7 Fenix Hulk, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  8. Fauch

    Fauch Promethean
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    I would say it depends. actually, it's probably near impossible to make a map that doesn't resemble any other map (in any other games, not just Halo)

    I first thought you meant that many "original" maps were based on just a few classic maps.
    so the difference is between taking inspiration (it's hard to not do it) and just ripping off existing maps?
     
  9. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    Well you just don't have a imagination or don't care to use it (bold but true). For example, how does the new Halo 4 maps (besides ragnarok) resemble previous halo maps or any maps from other games or did 343 do the impossible? You can try and start a spam war here but you're simply being stubborn by ignoring the fact that this map HEAVILY resembles parts of blackout with a little bit of guardian. As do many other maps in this forum.

    Here I'll draw it out in crayon for you...

    [​IMG]

    Yes there are differences in those sections but not much. Sorry to be aggressive but I guess I have to go in this much depth over such a small comment for some people to understand it. Maps like this take no talent and didn't even take that much skill. There's a jillion maps yet to be created that don't resemble a map before it in any way.

    It seems to me that maps like this are made because people put in a whole couple minutes of thought before they started forging. It seems like they just wanted to forge, rather than taking the time in creating a decent map by taking the proper steps and necessary time it would take to draw/think up a original design.

    Edit: Taking inspiration from a map can be done without recreating it. Take bloodgulch for example... It's a map inside a valley that is rectangular, open, rolling hills, and 2 bases at each end. You could design many maps off these traits or closely related traits and make a original map. Look at Halo 4's "ravine." The natural side is related to blood gulch's traits but is not a recreation of sections like this map. Imagination... it could help.
     
    #9 Fenix Hulk, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  10. Tombo V1

    Tombo V1 Mythic

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    i'll disagree here.

    whenever a new game comes out the majority of gamers would love to have the old maps as well. people like variety. (and the old as well as new)

    you are going to see a lot of people making the 'same' remakes.

    but i dont consider that a problem.

    custom games are at your choosing you dont have to play these maps.

    but more importantly, making a perfect multiplayer map is difficult. by remaking a classic map - good forgers will make good maps.

    and we will get (new) forgers learning the tips and tricks and in time making good original community content. everyone wins!
     
  11. Fauch

    Fauch Promethean
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    so that's what I said, the problem is about rip-offs.

    I'm not ignoring it, I said it. and even the original poster also admits it.
    I also admit that the design of many maps kinda bores me. even original maps tend to sometimes heavily resemble each other. for exemple, many "MLG" type maps seem to feature very similar ideas.

    there should be a general forge discussion thread maybe?
     
    #11 Fauch, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  12. CaptnSTFU

    CaptnSTFU Promethean
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    Original idea 2009 http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-3-forge-discussion/90845-map-idea-gaurd-out-combination-map.html

    No thought or inspiration huh? Original preveiw 2010 http://www.forgehub.com/forum/reach...-old-friends-familiar-faces-new-memories.html

    This i did about 2 years ago, it was hasty planned out a ton but never finished, many people were excited because like said they like older maps and not many hybrids have been done actually mostly they are re imaginations or remakes not hybrids. So i don't see a problem nor does anyone else. And it doesn't take Talent? ha that's a joke i say it does take talent to merge 2 maps that have completely opposing flow of game play keep your los where it needs to be as well as merge it all so it doesn't look like a "Frankenstein" map but simply a well forged map that incorporates elements from both Lockout and Guardian.

    If you don't like it you don't have to post on it, im about to update the pics to see a completed variant but not to say ill release it. Also i think that long before the dawn of forging my "talent" and "skill" spoke for themselves considering i helped map a mappack that Bungie themselves stole maps from for halo 3 (well didn't steal it was there content we worked wit h so what can ya do)
     
    #12 CaptnSTFU, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  13. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    MLG maps resemble each other because that's the MLG style. That's like saying race maps resemble each other or infection, etc. Poor example.

    That map is not much different than this one. They all look the same because it's replicating blackout and guardian. No it doesn't take talent to recreate these two and merge them together. Real talent comes from people who make an original and successful map. A hybrid is not an original. This is my opinion as well as that is your opinion. But there are some facts here, you replicated sections of some of the most notorious maps, which is not original. This is very common nowadays, maybe not 2 years ago but I guess that's what happens after so many recreations that people start merging recreations which is only throwing a spin on it. I just don't think it's impressive nor takes talent and I can express my opinion. I'm not being hateful or calling any names, simply expressing my opinion, take it how you want.

    Edit: I'm not replying to any more posts in this thread, getting a bit off subject here and I feel like you're being attacked by me expressing my thoughts about this map. I said what I needed, I'm out.
     
    #13 Fenix Hulk, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  14. CaptnSTFU

    CaptnSTFU Promethean
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    Alright well iv updated this map from basically a WIP beta to a Map Preview (almost finished) V. alpha.

    List of Updates:

    1. Sniper is now done.
    2. Lift form green to sniper works but not if you jump back into it without holding backwards you will fall and die
    3. Los from library to blue is off needs height adjustment (will be done before release)
    4. Many trick jumps added some obvious some not so much (all can be done on Classic Precision and regular slayer with no sprint)
    5. KOTH, Oddball set up as well as all respawn points (blue team subject to change after testing)
    6. Might have minor problems with lifts for red and blue (will find out and update after testing)
    7. Blue has been changed from the ramp all the way down to top mid to a open corridor to bottom mid
    8. Shotgun tunnel fall down in center bottom mid (subject to change)

    I'll be running a test at 6pm GMT with at lest KOTH Oddball and TS on this anyone who wants to play is more than welcome i need to get the kinks out of it.

    Stay Classy Forgehub = )
     
  15. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
    343 Industries

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    No. Just, no...

    That is the point of this map. Throw Guardian and Lockout in a blender and enjoy the "map smoothie." He wanted to take two of the best multiplayer maps Halo had, and mesh them together which would provide some interesting gameplay.

    Instead of just whining about how every map now is a remake, be happy! Most people were working on the remakes for the contest and theres some that still didn't finish them in time so we'll continue to see a few more remakes as time crawls forward. It's a good thing.

    BTW using old Halo maps is tradition in creating new ones. Did you know Bungie made Guardian as a reimagined Lockout? (Bungie said it themselves.) The idea is to take what has worked in past games and up the ante for new gameplay styles.

    And finally, not many people actually take the time to draw out a map layout on paper, evaluate the specifications of it, and size it correctly... You don't have to put a ton of thought into making a map. Just go with the flow... That is what I do, and most of the other forgers I know. Some of the best maps come out from this.

    No offense, but you come off VERY whiny. I'd love to see some of your work that should be "unlike anybody else's."
     
  16. BoBwUzHeRe1138

    BoBwUzHeRe1138 Legendary

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    LOL k bro.

    He even said the pure intent was to make a mash up map. I'd like to see YOUR original maps and judge how "GOOD" they are myself.... the only problem is that it needs to flow well and since both Guardian and Lockout do...it's just a matter of if each part flows well together. When it's done I'd like to DL and see it!
     
  17. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Legendary
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    it is becoming increasingly furstrating to read posts on this forum because people do not offer feedback with the following in mind (well some do)

    1. Read the author's intent for the map.
    2. Comment on whether it meets the intent the author had.
    3. Help them get to what they are trying to do.

    Instead we see too much of this:
    1. Look at the screens w/o downloading the map OR reading what the author wrote.
    2. Comment on how it's not what YOU want it to be.
    3. Offer little to no insight into how to make it better. Just crap on it.
     
  18. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    Bob, original maps... (that's all I make) check them out for yourself... (if you came to forgehub more often besides when your friend posts a map you would already know them).

    [links removed]


    All original I might add. Now let's see yours.

    Anyways, this map doesn't flow well, it's a straight rip off of those 2 maps which ain't even a original "smash up." This has been done so many times and much better I might add. IF you want to see a decent smash up of taking inspiration from both and actually making the map "flow" good, check out: Krytical I suggest you take some notes.

    To me sounding whiny, lol, I'm aloud to say that this map is poorly done. I understand what the intent was, obviously to mix both maps, again, I think it was poorly done and look like it was made in 15 minutes. It may be aggressive, should of just let this thread alone like most because you guys taking it to heart. I'm done here.

    Edit (Detailed Criticism): ...and if you're intent was to directly replicate parts of each map, then that was poorly done as well because there's some big differences so I don't think that was your exact intent, I believe it was to smash them together but make each "quadrant" represent both maps. But they don't in my opinion, it just sets the impression of a new forger trying to make his first map while going off lockout/blackout and guardian for inspiration. I would of added alot more to each "quadrant". I believe there needs to be more platforms, map needs to be bigger (kinda small compared to both maps) and add more vertical levels. The center should have 2/3 levels as well as each quadrant, with quadrants connecting by hallways, catwalks, or just flowing into one another. I would have one mancannon and one elbow catwalk.

    Most of the quadrants should also be connected and flow into each other rather than having to take the center chokepoint to anywhere else, resulting in dry gameplay that will only be focused in the center. Each quadrant is also spaced out quite a bit from the center, making the option of running into the center to go somehwere else practically suicide b/c you're left out there in the open with such a long ways to go.

    There's some criticism, that's what is wrong with it in my opinion and those silos don't go.
     
    #18 Fenix Hulk, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2013
  19. CaptnSTFU

    CaptnSTFU Promethean
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    Ok now that's feedback, as for it being poorly done you won't be able to tell that without looking / playing it pictures never do a map justice rule number 1 of critiquing maps.

    I did measure the layouts of both Lockout and Guardian when i made this Lockout is smaller than guardian at the blue spawn area (which is shotgun elbow in guardian) but your right about it looking small, it looks but isn't if that makes sense.

    And no i didn't want to directly recreate parts i wanted to use parts meaning they will be different than the original for example back elbow from red to library is much longer as well is elbow from blue to sniper.

    As for making all the quadrants flow to one another without using the center platform? um ok no Lockout/ Blackout and Guardian all were set that way it was never stale game play i think those maps would have been MLG maps if it was, Tactical jumps is the way around that which this map does have i just didn't highlight them for the world to see i like people to find them not know okay i need to jump here.

    I do agree on height variation more than what the map has now (like iv said its not done Library and Blue room both need adjustments) so i can always go back and improve upon it. But you have contradicted your self by claiming the map size is small yet saying my quadrants are too far away to make running top mid "worth while". see underlined above.

    Your right on how this doesn't make it seem wholeheartedly like guardian or lockout but thats why there will be 2 Variations of it that are completely different, id say this one screams lockout where i think the other variant im working on will push the merge between the 2 more than this.

    Also the silos had to be used, it would look stale and flat because of the area i used, also when your playing your not looking up enemies are at eye level so i don't think they would be too distracting or anything like that.

    Anyway thanks for the feedback
     
    #19 CaptnSTFU, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  20. Blackout8SIX

    Blackout8SIX Mythic
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    Has everyone forgotten that Guardian was inspired by Lockout when Bungie made it? The similarities between the maps are not coincidental. Bungie said that. Crudely put, Bungie loved Lockout so much that they flipped everything around, mixed it up, added some man cannons, put in some giant trees and called it Guardian. And in the end they remade Lockout with Blackout.

    Just in case the similarities elude you:
    1. Central platform with four areas extending away. Two of those areas you have to jump to. Two you don't.
    2. The bottom middle section has three access points.
    3. Sniper towers both wrap around and ramp up to a platform that looks down on the central platform.
    4. A main lift that has two drop-downs on either side.
    5. A small hole that drops down to the end of a short hallway where the shotgun is.
    6. Long line of sight across bottom section of map.
    7. Lower elbow walkway.
    8. BR and Sniper spawn across from each other on map.

    …and probably more. Why do we care if someone mixes two different shades of red together? The end result is still a shade of red. Is that confusing? No one can make a map now that doesn’t have the traits of at least one other map. I can’t remember why I wrote all this…
     

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