Forgehub's 4v4 FORGE CONTEST

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Max Extra, Jul 22, 2018.

By Max Extra on Jul 22, 2018 at 3:51 PM
  1. Max Extra

    Max Extra Forged Friday Founder
    Staff Member Administrator Forge Critic

    Likes Received:

    Welcome hub to the contest that you have been wanting from the start but was always just out of reach, the Halo 5 4v4 Forge Contest. Better late than never, right? We here at Forgehub are ready to see what 4v4 creations you have put together and see who comes out on top! I’m not like the flowery writers that give you the “regular” updates so we are going to drop right into it down below.

    SUBMISSION THREAD: To the submission thread.

    You probably were going to ask so I answered.​

    Q. I made a great 4v4 map long ago but I'm worried I can’t submit it?
    Don’t be. Any and all 4v4 maps created and submitted before the deadline will be accepted. I would caution you though that older maps will not reflect all of the changes to the meta and updates to forge that came after your map was made. That said, if you are submitting an old map make sure it still works and looks great, or you might not be doing yourself a favor. To also help our sanity we are going to limit each person to 3 maps each. Also if your map has been in matchmaking, that map cannot be submitted.

    Q. Who is the corrupt staff that will be judging us?
    A. These are the unfortunate souls left after the snap to judge:
    • Foge
    • Ascend Hyperion
    • Sethiroth
    • Max Extra

    Q. What games types are you using?
    This contest will be focusing on team slayer as it is the most basic and fundamental game type that all other game types are built on. In the future 4v4 objective contests will cover the other game types. The official game type we will be using will be Team Arena from 343i. I would highly recommend that your map be capable of playing 2 of the 3 core game types, including slayer.

    Q. What is my deadline for maps submitted?
    11:59 P.M. EST Sunday September 30th 2018 is when we will be closing the submission thread on Forgehub. You will have until we close the submission thread to submit. Don’t play games here and wait till the last minute or hope we close it late. Get your map submitted on time.

    Q. Can I alter my map past the submission date?
    No, no, what, no. We are going to try to help you help yourself by saving your maps after everything is submitted to our files so that it is as you submitted it. If we see a map altered after the deadline then it will be dropped from the contest.

    Q. Is there a grace period?
    Incase you didn't sniff it out, no, there is no grace period. There is a deadline. You meet the deadline.

    Q. When will we have the results?
    So I can’t tell you the future, but it will be after all the maps have been reviewed and judged. I will provide the schedule and break down of the judging when we have all of the submitted maps. With 4v4 being one of the core things people build for we are not sure how many maps to expect and guessing now would not be in anyone’s best interest.

    Q. What are my prizes, why should I participate?
    Prizes? Good question.

    You should participate to show off your stuff. I would expect this to be a larger contest with a lot of competition so bragging rights are in there somewhere, but I know everyone here is fairly humble and definitely would not brag or shove it in anyone's face if they won. Additionally more than just the staff sees these maps.

    When you submit a map anyone can see it, and if it were to win of course other people might take notice. So, this could be a decent way for you unrecognized forgers to get your name out there, or you all that feel like your well known but never truly appreciated for the master that you are.

    Additionally there are some monitary prizes if that interests you. Educate yourself below:

    1st place: 500 USD, Forgehub t-shirt
    2nd place: 300 USD, Forgehub t-shirt
    3rd place: 200 USD, Forgehub t-shirt

    Honarable mentions 1 and 2 also get a Forgehub t-shirt

    Q. Who can participate?
    You will be up against anyone and everyone except for the judges. Judges can not submit maps. That would be a tad corrupt judging our own and we don’t do that here do we?

    Q. How will my map be judged?
    Well I’ll tell you.

    Map judging will be done in waves. Each wave of judging will be focused on different aspects of the grading criteria. Each wave builds upon the next and is arranged from most important to least in terms of gameplay.

    Those dropped each round will be given a reason and a score for up to the point they were dropped. The feedback provided should contain the reason you were dropped and ways to help improve your forge and level design game as the judges see it. Judges will be more than willing to talk about why your map was dropped should you need more explanation, but please remember if your map is dropped, its out. You can not argue it back in.

    It should also be noted that maps will be judged as they are submitted not based on their potential. If we judged each map based on its potential we would be here forever. This means that judges will not push maps forward if they had had some minor tweaks. This also means that judges will not make any tweaks to your maps. If you accidently left a kill barrier on the map that kills everyone, its out. If you accidently left the boundaries on your name volumes on or your kill boundary volumes, it will be taken into account and not ignored. What I am saying is please review your maps before submitting them.

    Wave 1 Gameplay and Balance (50) - Top 40: Minimum score 35
    Wave 2 Readability (20) - Top 30
    Wave 3 Interactions (15) - Top 20
    Wave 4 Aesthetics (10) - Top 15
    Wave 5 QA (5) - Top 5

    Gameplay (25)

    • Spawning (spawn exploitation and overly-repeated spawns)
    • Performance Drops not intrusive or noticable
    • Map is appropriately sized
    • Weapon selection works well with the map, ammo count on weapons are not over/underpowered, weapons are placed well throughout the map
    • Proper micro-positioning (fluid movement in areas meaning no bumps, weird edges stopping spartan from moving smoothly)

    Balance (25)

    • Map layout does not give one team an advantage over the other
    • Power positions have drawbacks/counters
    • Lines of sight- Are sightlines well balanced and promote movement?
    • Exploiting map flaws
    • Players are not consistently being cross-mapped, or shot from locations that they cannot see/fight back from
    • Movement throughout map is consistent
    • Macro/Micro Pathing- is player movement predictable and punishable

    Readability (20)

    • You are able differentiate different areas of the map
    • Players are not lost after spawning
    • Map is not too dark/light/blinding/unclear
    • Players are not accidentally committing suicide at a high rate
    • Effects (weather, fog, fx) are not detrimental to gameplay

    Interactions (15)

    • Map offers a fair amount of long-range and cqc gameplay
    • Map offers different height variations that allow engagements between levels
    • Map offers the players quality pathing options every few seconds
    • Players are not getting caught up on map’s geometry/art
    • Players are not “fighting the map”

    Aesthetics (10)

    • Map is pleasing to look at.
    • Map uses smart piece usage
    • Map is immersive and holds a consistent theme throughout.
    • Aesthetics add to gameplay and do not detract from it.
    • Map has an Aesthetic

    QA (5)

    • Final check on performance. Aka drops or dips in frame rate.
    • Z fighting is not prevalent
    • Name volumes
    • Intro/Exit/Static Cameras

    Q. Can I get my map looked at ahead of time?
    YES, a thousand times, yes. Please get with judges and testing lobbies ahead of time to discuss thing to make sure it’s looking good. Please note, that the judges and lobbies are to help get the rough edges off and to get all of the basics down, not to guarantee you a win. I want it to be known that these tools are available to everyone and no one should complain that they were not given a chance to access such tools to help you get the basics out of the way for the contest.

    Q. How many maps can I submit?
    Incase I wasn’t clear earlier, 3 maps per person. And if your map is in matchmaking or was in matchmaking at some point, its not allowed to be submitted.

    Q. I have more questions…
    If you have more questions please ask them below and tag the judges so that we can answer it. Questions answered down below will be added to the OP so that you all can reference it later a bit easier.

    Q. Are remakes or re-imaginings of older halo dev maps permitted? -Arpod
    This is to ensure that we are as clear as can be for the question. We wish to encourage originality and new content with this contest. We will NOT allow remakes for this contest. Reimaginings seem to toe the line, and, while are permitted, we highly recommend you put your own spin and style to the map and in the end make it a unique map on its own.

    Link to the Trello board for the contest can be found By clicking here
    #1 Max Extra, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2018


Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Max Extra, Jul 22, 2018.

    1. Sethiroth
      PSA. Due to feedback from the community we have decided to update the gametype from Default Team Slayer to Team Arenas Settings for the 4v4 Forge Contest. In the Custom lobby the game type can be found under 343 Industries and is called Slayer HCS. For those who do not know the main changes, here they are.

      Radar only shows shooting and spartan abilitys.
      Ground Pound and Spartan Charge is disabled

      Thank you for you feedback and we will let you know of any other changes going forward.

      Thanks and happy forging.
    2. RPG3000
      This is awesome!!
    3. Alex Parsons
      Alex Parsons
      Eventually, I will make a ship in every Forge mode. I'm not Forging in H5 right now, because I don't have to. 343i said they're adding a Custom Games browser to MCC. If that actually happens, I should be able to use the maps I already have to start recruiting for my Spartan Company. Thank you for asking.

      That doesn't mean that I consider the issues I brought up to be "minute details," though.
    4. Dunco
      It just seems like you only pop into forgehub to argue with people about things you're never involved in.
    5. Stardriver907
      Heh. I thought that's how it worked here :D
      SgtSlaphead likes this.
    6. RPG3000
      God bless forge hub. Thanks for keeping halo 5 forge alive
    7. CommanderColson
      bruh it be a hawhaw
      icyhotspartin and Max Extra like this.
    8. HandyMandy
      What is the size limit to the map?
    9. purely fat
      purely fat
      What ever you think works for 4v4. Just remember what you think and what others think is different so maybe don't start building until you see a few maps or go look at other 4v4 maps as a reference point.
    10. Alex Parsons
      Alex Parsons
      I know it seems that way. It isn’t that I like arguments. If fact, I despise them. So unproductive. I can't help it if Forgehub has monopolized the Forge community. Everyone looking for maps has to look here. 343i has apparently decided that it would be easier if all the Forgers were in the same place. And it’s hard to blame them. It makes sense on paper, get all the Forgers together and they’ll help each other to get better at Forging. It worked for the competitive community right? They got together, in the spirit of competition, and united the Halo community so that we could all learn how to become better gamers and more full actualized human beings, right?

      No they didn’t. They don’t even really try to teach anyone how to play. At least, not anyone who really needs the help. Oh sure, people like you and I have a place, if we want it. But people like Stardriver? No way. Don't even think about it.

      Someone who is eleven years old today is the same age that I was when I first started playing Halo. And yet, that person has absolutely no possible chance of their opinions being taken seriously. Just because they're young, they get treated as if they don't deserve to play. And it isn't much different for other minorities. I can't remember a Halo tournament that had an all black, or an all female team make it to the final four. Why is that? Do these people not enjoy competition? Or do they just not have the passion it takes to succeed?

      I think the real answer is far less comfortable. I believe that the competitive community only actively supports the people who are already the most statistically likely to succeed. Because they understand that doing so will ultimately increase their own odds of success.

      The Forge community is following this example. Anyone who doesn't meet the description above is, effectively, encouraged to give up. There is a perfect example of this happening in the last Forge contest.

      Link to thread.

      I can't Forge anymore.

      In this particular case, the discouragement seems to be mostly a knee-jerk reaction to any negative feedback. The OP says that there are TWO reasons for why he can't Forge. The primary one being that he doesn't have his own Xbox. None of the people who came in to offer their “advice” acknowledged this fact. Like I said, they just reacted to what they viewed as “negative feedback,” and it's hard to blame them.

      Now I should note that I'm only using this thread as an example because it happened so recently. But the reaction is the part that is typical, not the OP. The OP is the unusual part. Most times, when people feel discouraged and want to leave a gaming community, they just leave.

      Obviously, I'm not suggesting that Forge contests are to blame for people abandoning ship across the entire Halo community. In fact, I view it as more of a symptom of a larger problem. A problem which I call “Halo’s dilemma.”

      Halo’s dilemma is a systemic problem with the entire gaming industry. Notice here that I don’t call it “The Halo Dilemma.” This is because I do not believe that Halo is the cause of the problem. Rather, I choose to believe that Halo is, or can be, part of the solution to the problem.

      I am not blaming you. I am not blaming your friends. I am not blaming the Forge contests. I am not blaming Forgehub. I am not blaming 343i. I am not blaming Microsoft. I am not blaming competitive gaming in general. I am not blaming politics. I am not blaming climate change. I am not blaming the misalignment of Jupiter. THIS IS NOT ABOUT BLAME! I can not stress that enough.

      Blaming others is how systemic problems START, not how they END! Yes, clearly I am frustrated with the community. But, you can’t blame my frustration as the cause of the problem.

      And just to prove that I am not trying to blame Halo’s dilemma on Forgehub, I will name two other examples of communities with symptoms of the same problem.

      Example #1

      The story.

      Link to

      343’s growing problem with Halo’s endings.

      This makes a good example, because again, it is recent. Also it’s just convenient because this particular blog addresses an issue with the literature that I have also noticed. A lot of the stories end up pretty much where they began. At the same time 343i is adding all these new characters, factions, and locations to the canon. I think the reason they’re doing this is to allow more space in the canon for fans to write their own fanfiction. In the long run I think it’s for the better because it solves another problem with writing fanfiction that has been in the game from the beginning. If you want to write some fanfiction about the Covenant War, you pretty much have an unlimited number of bad guys, but a only a limited number of Spartan IIs. That makes writing a plotline tricky, but at least we know how the Covenant War ends. The problem now is that we don’t know where the story’s going, so anything we write could turn out to be in conflict with the canon. That’s why I think it’s good that 343i has decided to examine the Covenant War era a little bit further.

      If they hadn’t blown up Requiem, we could have been writing about that. Jul had what he wanted, the Janus Key, or thought he did. He could have just left. Lasky and the Infinity could’ve kept fighting the rest of the Covenant fleet.

      (Janus is the Roman god of entrances and exits. So why would he need a key?)

      Example #2

      The HCS settings

      Link to waypoint

      Forge Maps and Abilities

      I wish they hadn't done this. Remove the Spartan Charge and Ground Pound, I mean.

      Personally, I think it cheapens the previous championships, but the competitors don't seem to mind. Still, I don't like 343i excuses. First of all Spartan Charge and Ground Pound are new abilities. 343i put them in the game for the new people. Furthermore, both those abilities are designed to help the player traverse the map as quickly as possible. Specifically, by breaking through destructible walls and roofs. Just look at the opening cutscene of Halo 5.

      Are there any destructible walls or roofs in the HCS? Or any of the Arena maps, for that matter? I know of a few in Warzone. But, they are kinda out of the way and don't really go anywhere.

      More to the point, can you blame the competitors for using the new abilities outside their intended use, when there was no prospect for using them as designed?

      These are just two other symptoms of what I call Halo's dilemma. But like I said, the real dilemma is a systemic problem that affects the entire gaming industry. It’s just that there are certain facts about Halo that make it a superlative example.

      Anyway, sorry for the long post. I know how you dislike reading. Hopefully, this will help explain my seemingly bizarre impulses.
    11. Dunco
      You're not sorry o_O
      Chronmeister likes this.
    12. Xandrith
    13. purely fat
      purely fat
      TIL That spartan charge and ground pound were created for the NEW players.
    14. Alex Parsons
      Alex Parsons
      I could've made it a lot longer. I can always dig out a copy of The Art of War and turn this whole thing into an ancient history lesson.
    15. Alex Parsons
      Alex Parsons
      What does "TIL" mean?
    16. Alex Parsons
      Alex Parsons
      I think you mean, "Nobody else cares."
      Because I'm somebody, and I care. Unless you mean to assert that I am nobody. But, that would be objectifying me, wouldn't it?
      SgtSlaphead likes this.
    17. Xandrith
      that's subjective
      SgtSlaphead likes this.
    18. Dunco
      I doubt that. Ancient history is an interesting topic
    19. Portaleer
      Good luck to everyone!
      Max Extra and TimeDipper like this.
    20. TimeDipper
      This is awesome! Cant wait to see all the new maps. :D

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