Disappearing Pieces Anyone? (Solved)

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by ExTerrestr1al, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    On a map which is almost ready for consumption, the name and theme of which shall remain a secret until it's ready :p, I have had two pieces disappear and it seems to possibly be perminent. I say it may be perminent because it says I have no more wall pieces to use, but I had not used another in its place! I did flag a few more items to delay spawn, made some weapon placement tweaks, and then loaded it up in Custom Games. Loading back up in forge does not bring it back. Nor does removing the delayed spawn on the pieces I recently flagged.

    The pieces area a colluseum wall acting as a ceiling for an L shaped hallway, and a Brace Large acting as a wall in one portion of that L.



    Here are a few important things about the map in question. You may be able to suggest a reason why this is happening based on what I list here...
    • I always lock pieces into place after I'm done w/ them.
    • Level is very close to being at budget. I do have enough budget to place either of the pieces, but the cwal is no longer available to pick.
    • maxed out on walls, bridges, and inclines. 3-4 block pieces still available.
    • Has some framerate issues.
    • Uses delayed spawn trick to brighten up much of the level. Dynamic Lighting still functional.
    Has anyone seen or heard of this before, know what causes it or how to fix?

    I do have a backup of this level that does not have this problem, but it is lacking some of my recent changes. I'd really like to keep this most current one if possible.

    THANKS!!!!

    EDIT: SOLVED
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DavidJCobb [​IMG]
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JKaddict [​IMG]
    the only thing I can think of that was changed on the cwall piece was to add a plasma turret to the edge of it that poked through a building.p


    Solid objects will not spawn after a delay if the area that they spawn in isn't clear.

    For example, if a Strut is supposed to spawn 20 seconds after the round starts, but a player is standing where it would spawn, then it just won't show up. It will repeatedly "try" to spawn at 20-second intervals. The game engine appears to do this sort of checking to avoid impaling and killing players.

    Petetehduck documented this in more detail, and found that players or vehicles will have this affect on objects. Newer Halo games regard detachable turrets as vehicles, so it's possible that they affect the object-spawning checks.

    Delete the Plasma Cannon and see if that fixes your issue.


    See above, this was the solution! Thanks David!

    I deleted the turret and the pieces spawed almost immediately.

    BTW, i'm almost ready to post a thread about this map, which just hit 10,000 and IMO looks really good!
     
    #1 ExTerrestr1al, Jan 24, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  2. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
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    I don't know if our problems are related, but I had a disappearing issue where certain brace larges would reapear and disappear as you moved around them..


    Are your disappearing objects perhaps partially phased in the ground? (lol @ accidental alliteration)
     
  3. Tallt66

    Tallt66 The Joker
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    I was forging in Erosion inside the Grifball arena and my large walkway that was partially merged into the ground would look fine. Then after I would save, exit, and reload, the lighting would stop working and it would disappear and reappear depending on how I looked at it. nothing I did would fix the issue. I finally just had to delete it and use something else :/ It also happened with Brace Large when I tried to merge the funky part into the ground. As Spin suggests, merging into the ground seems to freak out some pieces. They did it in Reach too, but in Halo 4 the effect seems even worse.
     
  4. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    thanks for the comments guys. that does not appear to be what's happening to me, though.

    Yes, both pieces were phased into others, but always appeared when viewing from every angle. They were part of my build for many days before they suddently vanished.

    The map is storing them as still existing, and as a result I cannot recreate the cwal missing piece because my walls are maxed out.

    One thing I know for sure would fix this (until it happens again?) is to delete all of my colluseum walls, which I really am not looking forward to.
     
  5. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
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    Record the angles and exact locations of the colly walls. It's frustrating, but I'm not sure what else you could do.
     
  6. Fragsturbait

    Fragsturbait Legendary

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    Yeah that might be your only option., as awful as that sounds. I had a problem with spawn points doing that. I was pretty close to budget on that map. Difference is that when the spawn point disappeared I got one back in my item list. It'd be nice if we could actually reproduce this huh? Is the wall like, gone, gone? Or is it invisible? Because I've seen pieces turn invisible, but they're still on the map, and can be interacted with, and count towards your limits. If it's only invisible, maybe you could learn to accept your new skylight, and move on? ;p
     
  7. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    lol... frag

    Il'l have to double-check on whether they can be interacted w/. Maybe.

    what may have happened to your spawn points disappearing is that they were just below the threshold for where a player begins to get the deathclock for being out of the level?

    My first level I made in Halo 4 (not yet published) started at the workable floor of Ravine, and even though a player walking on a piece would not get the soft-kill notification, a spawn placed on that floor would disappear and then the game would consider it deleted. That was because the player's head seems to be the thing that decides whether you are in an area or not. (or maybe torso?)

    For me, moving that floor up .1 units fixed the problem.
     
  8. Starship Ghost

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    Halo 4 is kinda sloppy with the glitches/bugs, especially in forge. Not too bad but worse than any other Halo. Objects can become invisible when phased through terrain or walls, I've had spawn points disappear and fall through the ground, etc.
     
  9. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    yea I know. that's when you have it phased into terrain around 1/2 way or more. the center point of the object is what the game seems to store as coordinates. That's why a fatter object and a skinnier one, both with the same coordinates except one axis, do not necessarily line up perfectly.

    what we have here is two pieces that never had this problem of being phased too much, and the only thing I can think of that was changed on the cwall piece was to add a plasma turret to the edge of it that poked through a building. I didn't like that it poked through, but decided it actually added a little detail to the inside of the building and I could use it for something. My experiment was to add a turret to the top of it. IDK why that would cause it to disappear the next time I loaded it up in Customs, though.

    There is another TELEPORTER glitch on this level and i'm not sure what is causing that. It's not the typical glitch where the teleporter glow/beam is not visible. It's that when you pass through it one way and not the other, it momentarily looks as though it's taken you to a different location. You get like 1 frame of some remote area where there has never been a teleporter....

    it is accurate to say that this particular level is pushing the outer limits of what forge can do, so I'm not really surprised that I am having some glitches/bugs.
     
  10. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
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    I had this exact same problem when constructing my Orbital Remake. It made me pull my hair out... okay not actually, but it was annoying.

    I recommend you load the map up in custom games and look at where the disappearing item should be. If I'm correct, the object will actualy spawn in the custom game either immediately or a delayed spawn.

    it is still there, but it has spawning issues. I haven't discovered if it is an issue involving the lighting glitch or if it is because you are getting close to the item limit.

    I discovered the object item limit on my remake when placing spawns. I suggest you save an extra version of the map, and use the rest of the pieces of structure as you would of. (If you finished the map) Then just spawn as many spawn points as you can to see if you will hit the object limit. Thats what I did.

    If you aren't near the object limit, then it has to be an issue with the delayed spawn lighting glitch. Perhaps if you have too many things spawn at one time spawn in it could break the map.

    Anyway, that's my input. Hope it works out!
     
  11. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    thanks GTF, I first noticed it in Customs when trying to go look at my lighting changes using the delayed spawn trick. So loading it up in customs doesn't show the object.

    I know it's still there because Forge won't let me place another Cwall. I do, however, have budget to make another Brace Large, but would rather not use extra budget if I don'[t have to. Things are tight already.

    I could just try to figure out what needs to be redone from a not-so-old backup file. I've confirmed it does not have this problem (yet). But not knowing why this happened could just as easily cause my new file to have the same problem later.

    You said Item limit... do we know what it is? YOu would think that budget would take care of that. But perhaps not.

    Too many objects spawning on delay may be the true culprit, though. I have different levels casting shadows down onto areas I wish were brightly lit. So I'm not only flagging the ceiling as delay spawn, but t he floor of the upper section too.

    Everything is on delay of 2 sec. I did flag afew more items prior to loading this up in Customs and noticing the problem.
     
  12. DavidJCobb

    DavidJCobb Legendary
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    There's another way.

    OP can use the Unlock All function, and then re-lock the good Coliseum Walls one-by-one. After that, Delete All Of These will work.


    Solid objects will not spawn after a delay if the area that they spawn in isn't clear.

    For example, if a Strut is supposed to spawn 20 seconds after the round starts, but a player is standing where it would spawn, then it just won't show up. It will repeatedly "try" to spawn at 20-second intervals. The game engine appears to do this sort of checking to avoid impaling and killing players.

    Petetehduck documented this in more detail, and found that players or vehicles will have this affect on objects. Newer Halo games regard detachable turrets as vehicles, so it's possible that they affect the object-spawning checks.

    Delete the Plasma Cannon and see if that fixes your issue.
     
  13. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    wow it sounds like I have two possible fixes now, both of which should not be very painful!

    thank you!
     
  14. Given To Fly

    Given To Fly MP Level Designer
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  15. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    See above, this was the solution! Thanks David!

    I deleted the turret and the pieces spawed almost immediately.

    BTW, i'm almost ready to post a thread about this map, which just hit 10,000 and IMO looks really good!
     
    #15 ExTerrestr1al, Jan 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  16. thesilencebroken

    thesilencebroken Jill Sandwich
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    Ya know, I read this thread because the roof of my map wasn't spawning after the 10 seconds, and I thought "yeah, well this isn't going to help, my turret isn't even within range of the roof."

    But then I realized the problem (in a symmetrical map) is only happening on the side with the turret. So I said what the hell, and I pulled it away. Instantly the roof appeared. Son of a *****.

    Thank you, because this really and truly saved my map. So ridiculous too.
     
  17. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    I know that's how relieved I was too!

    the one in Preview now called "LaForge" was the one that was affected, and now it is fixed, so thanks to everyone who helped out in this thread and came to my (our) rescue especially David J Cobb for providing the exact solution.

    BTW, I tried just moving the turret over a bit and it still caused this to happen. I removed it entirely as a turret is like 75$ in budget or somethign crazy like that. I found better ways to use the budget on decor, so I'm happy.
     
  18. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
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    Not helping me - my pieces weren't on a spawn timer and still didn't appear :(. They're just regular old Brace Larges on Ravine, and it's just two of them next to each other that refuse to spawn.
     
  19. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Heroic
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    i'm sorry to hear that, it's def initely frustrating... what about the other suggestions in this thread? Use some combo of unlock all, lock some pieces, and then Delete all of these.

    Would this perhaps work? (also suggested by David JCobb:
    Then at least you could place your brace larges again and see if it still happens.

    Good luck
     

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