Crux

Discussion in 'WIP - Works In Progress' started by PTWOB, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. PTWOB

    PTWOB Legendary

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    Removed from file share.

    This is a remake of AceOfSpades' Azula map made for Halo Reach. Enjoy.

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    #1 PTWOB, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  2. AceOfSpades

    AceOfSpades Talented
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    I would have really liked if you had asked me before making this.
     
  3. PTWOB

    PTWOB Legendary

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    AceOfSpades, I had no intention of offending you. There were so few maps available when Halo4 came out, my friends and I started to recreate some of the maps we had enjoyed in Reach. We like the flow of Azula which created some great fast action for our group.

    I looked at some of your previous conversations and when asked if you were still forging, you stated "Would be cool but I don't see myself participating as much regardless... I've grown far less interested in video games since going to college" With that said, I used your design, forged an original Halo 4 map, and gave you credit for the original design. If there's any harm with what I did, I apologize.
     
  4. cluckinho

    cluckinho Well Known
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    I don't really see a big deal if you made it for your own use, but to release it without asking first wouldn't be in the best taste.
     
  5. PTWOB

    PTWOB Legendary

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    To avoid upsetting any more members, I've removed this file from my file share and will keep if private among my gaming friends. If at some time AceOfSpade's aproves of the recreation I will entertain releasing it to the community. Thanks for your feedback.
     
  6. Zigywig

    Zigywig Legendary

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    This. If someone remade one of my maps without asking for permission, I personally wouldn't care, but this is definitely not true in most cases. Good idea to ask next time, even if it is just for fun.
     
  7. Catman87

    Catman87 Promethean
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    AceOfSpades, you should be happy that someone liked your map so much that they remade it. If you don't mind my asking why does this bother you? Seems forgehub has just become filled with a plethora of map remakes these days anyway.
     
  8. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
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    You don't need Bungie's permission to recreate one of their maps. You need permission to recreate a person's maps and publish them.

    Say AceOfSpades was remaking the map himself. He wouldn't necessarily be happy if someone published HIS map and put it up in their fileshare.. especially without asking..
     
  9. Catman87

    Catman87 Promethean
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    Do you? I could be wrong, but I couldn't find that in any of the rules. Sure, it's respectful to ask someone first, but we aren't releasing any copyright material here.
     
  10. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
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    At the very least, it's unsaid law. Just like the law that states you don't use a urinal adjacent to another person unless there are no other urinals and you HAVE to go..
     
  11. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    [​IMG]
     
    #11 Fenix Hulk, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  12. PTWOB

    PTWOB Legendary

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    I may be missing something in the forum rules regarding permission to recreate a person's map. The only thing I see is...

    Map Theft
    Map theft is the claim that content created by another user is your own, when you have not contributed any work or effort to its creation. While map theft is often no longer a problem since changes to creator labels have been added, any member caught (after evidence has been provided) violating this rule will receive a ban. The ban will last 1 month.

    I took a map design and used it as a model to create a new map, in a new version of Halo, utilizing a different map palette with different structures. All of which had their own set of challenges. I gave credit to the original map design created for Halo Reach. Since AceOfSpade seemed upset that I recreated his map, I removed it out of respect.

    Look at the hundreds of Bungie map remakes. Each one is unique in their own respect. Everyone knows who created the original map. At no time did I try to deceive or take credit for a map design.

    If AceOfSpades recreates his map I'm sure people will download and play it. The fact that I recreated this map for my friends and I to play and decided to share it with the community until AceOfSpades recreates his own seems to have been lost. I look forward to seeing his recreation because that's what it will be...a recreation just like mine.
     
    #12 PTWOB, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  13. Catman87

    Catman87 Promethean
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    PTWOB is right I'm afraid. If we are going off the rules alone, then he technically didn't even have to give AceOfSpades credit. The fact that he did shows a sign of respect, and although AceOfSpades wished he has asked for permission, it is not necessary.

    Ace, you used an in-game map maker to build a map. Someone who played reach liked your map enough to remake it so others could play it in Halo 4... and you have a problem with this? I'm seriously asking why?
     
  14. AceOfSpades

    AceOfSpades Talented
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    I don't have a problem with him remaking it, I just would've liked him to have asked beforehand so that I knew he was doing it. The only reason I found this was because I happened to stumble upon it. I would have never known this was in existence if I hadn't happened to visit ForgeHub today.

    I'm glad someone liked one of my Reach maps enough to think it worthy of a remake in Halo 4. I'll have a look around the map myself once I get on Halo 4 again.

    Carry on, feel free to do whatever. Sorry to be so blunt in the first post.
     
  15. CaptnSTFU

    CaptnSTFU Promethean
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    Your not being blunt people put words in your mouth, as for the map i loved Ace's version so if you based it off his design using ravine (nice btw) i'll defiantly like to get ahold of this, i know iv even been lest say picky as of late but no one really flys off the wall anymore if you "recreate" a map, now like ya'll posted stealing is different but there is no problem with this just pm a heads up at least that way original reach or h3 map authors know your doing it.
     
  16. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    It's called respect. If you remake any map, you should give the original some respect and kudos or else "your version" would of never existed. I would of never recreated a fan's piece of art (that is what it is) and then posted it on here without giving the person some respect for it. Obviously everything we create in forge is not copyrighted because it's through Halo 4 and all rights belong to 343 (including forged maps). Now, if someone creates a map outside of forge and someone recreates that piece inside forge, it still can not be considered copyright infringement.

    What cycle is getting at here is... that it is common sense to respect one's work and make sure he gets full credit for the original creation. I agree with Ace, if you're going to recreate someone's map and post it on here, and atleast give the time to tell the original author you're doing so and give kudos to him for the original design in your post.

    Edit: I had something a lot worse actually happen to me. I created a map called "Tribal War" in halo 3 and I submitted it to Bungie's atlas to try and get it into matchmaking. During Bungie's review period, I deployed to Iraq and had no internet and now way of tracking the map's progress. So I let one of my fellow forgers I was friends with gain control of the submission process while I was gone. During the deployment I soon forgot about it completely. When I returned I was notified by my friends that the my map made it into matchmaking and was retitled "Bungie vs the world" and I was never given any credit for the map at all. I was so pissed but that's how shady some people can be and I can't do anything about it because the map belongs to Bungie either way. FML
     
    #16 Fenix Hulk, Jan 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  17. Fauch

    Fauch Promethean
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    because it's obvious when a map is a remake of a bungie's map. most players know bungie's maps
     
  18. BoBwUzHeRe1138

    BoBwUzHeRe1138 Legendary

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    Wait...did he give the original creator credit in the OP or no? If he did, then he's respecting them by 1. REMAKING their map and 2. Not only doing that but clearly showing it as an original piece and giving them credit. That should be enough. Anyone who gets mad at someone for remaking a map (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery) then there's something wrong. If he DIDN'T give credit then the issue arises of passing it off as his own which is completely disrespectful.

    But I don't think you need to *ask* to remake something just like you don't need to ask Bungie to remake their maps. There's no difference whatsoever. Countless people work on those maps and many have remade them. We give those original creators credit by saying "this is a remake of Guardian", "this is a remake of Blood Gulch", "this is a remake of High Ground", etc. or "this is inspired by Lockout", "this is inspired by Countdown", etc.

    Sure, more people will recognize old, official maps but the same idea should apply to Forged fan creations. It's a map that someone liked, they remake it, say it's a remake of _____ by ______ and that should be the end of it. I think it's a tad bit pretentious to say "You should've told me!" or "You should've asked if it's okay."

    No they don't. It's fair game, it's alright, and it shouldn't be frowned upon. Again...this is with the idea of credit being given -- it goes without saying that passing a map off as your own is awful.
     
  19. Fenix Hulk

    Fenix Hulk Promethean
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    Look at the bottom of his OP, it was edited. He never mentioned Ace in the beginning and that's how it all got started. There's a difference between bungie's maps and fan creations. You don't have to give credit to an remake of a official map, it speaks for itself and everyone knows it is a remake. However, with a fan creation, the map is much less popular. I'm sure Ace holds a little pride in his creation and deserves to be mentioned as the original creator. It's ok and the OP has already been reflected with that. Problem solved.
     
  20. Catman87

    Catman87 Promethean
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    No he did, it was always there. The edit is when he mentioned that he removed it from his fileshare. Regardless, Ace already said that he didn't mind. This discussion should no longer continue.
     

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