1. Help make the internet a more democratic place and support Net Neutrality today! Simply visit www.goFCCyourself.com and click on 'EXPRESS'.
    Dismiss Notice

Changing up the Forging scene...

Discussion in 'Forge Discussion' started by Ray Benefield, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Ray Benefield

    Ray Benefield Godly Perfection
    Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    510
    *stretches*

    Oh it has been a long time Forgehub. I've missed you guys. ;) Halo 5 is around the corner, so everyone is coming back. That includes myself, and as per usual I'm looking to disrupt the normal flow of things in Forging. "So what now GP?" Good question... I'll cut to the chase.

    I'm building a Forge Product Team.

    TL;DR

    I'm constructing a team of specialists; designers, developers, testers, QA managers, community managers, etc. With said team, we can develop a mass amount of products simultaneously, in a structured format, with shared risks, responsibilities, and rewards. This team would not be it's own community, but would continue to integrate deeply with Forgehub, not split off on its own. All of this is possible with some project management and project organization tools. We will be using Trello, Realtime Board, and Google Drive to organize and collaborate. Read on for whys, whats, hows, whos, whens, wheres and other question-like words. Here is an example Trello board to get your imagination going:

    [​IMG]



    Why build a Product Team?

    This is the part where everyone is like, "Dude that's no different than teams that have been built in the past." And to you I respond with, the difference is in organization and approach. Outside of this precious Halo community, there is the world of business. After having been a software engineer for a while now, and looking to start my own company in the near future, I put thought into Forge being just another venue for content creation. And by which I mean, why not try to tackle it with the same approach as a content creation company? By that I mean, no single person is responsible for the entire process of content creation.

    In the world of Forging, a forger does a TON of work to get their map in front of peers and even further towards matchmaking. Some of the tasks involved are:

    • Designing a map
    • Developing the map from the design
    • Testing the map with the community
    • Tweaking/polishing the map to perfection
    • Generating content (screenshots and videos) for the map
    • Publishing the map on outlets like Forgehub
    • Spreading the word of the map
    • Responding to feedback
    • Getting the map noticed by the matchmaking team
    • Adjusting the map to matchmaking needs
    Forgers work hard and play hard. That is a HUGE content pipeline and a lot of responsibility to tackle on your own. No single person can come close to even perfect in a couple of these steps let alone all of them. So it's time to try to evolve that perspective by creating a product team with individuals to handle parts of the process rather than the entire process.

    This is not an easy task. Entrepreneurs will tell you how much work is involved in building a company and that is essentially what would be built. So with the experience I've gained in various places, I've decided to make this my next project.


    Solo and Teams of Peers

    Most Forgers are solo artists. There is nothing wrong with that. I tackled that for a long time here and there.

    • You can trust yourself with what you want.
    • You can manage your own time.
    • Nobody is counting on you.
    • You have true creative freedom.
    • It is yours and nobody can tell you otherwise.
    • In the end every decision is yours.
    That's only part of the wonderful parts of being solo. But on the flip side:

    • Everything is YOUR responsibility.
    • You can't be perfect at everything. (I promise you, I've tried lol)
    • Time is limited. Sometimes you don't have time to run sessions when you really should.
    • So many ideas, but you have to pick one or two so you don't spread yourself thin.
    • Some forgers have a hard time leaving behind "style" and "preference" so a lot of your stuff ends up being the similar sometimes.
    • Sometimes we just don't want to take screenshots or watch replays.
    • With so much to handle it is easy to miss something or make an easy mistake.
    • Very lonely sometimes.
    Then there is the Team of Peers. Where every forger plays the role of forger.

    • Not everything is your responsibility, you can share work.
    • More heads on a project means more ideas bouncing back and forth.
    • More coverage, so when you have to be offline others on the team can run sessions.
    • Merging of styles is a powerful thing that will help the staleness of one's repeat style and preference.
    • Only one of you really has to make a post.
    • A litter of ideas means you get your pick of it.
    • Fun to collaborate.
    • More eyes on one project means a lot of chances to catch issues.
    And then there's the horrors of working with peers.

    • You lose creative freedom. Seriously dude, you can't have that cone there.
    • Arguments a plenty. Depending on your crew arguments are bound to happen.
    • Unexpected decisions. Not being the sole creator means sometimes things change without you realizing it.
    • Ownership. This tends to be a problem when someone feels like they did most of the work.
    • Some of you may be good at certain parts of the pipeline, but overall you are still overlapping your skills.
    • Too many options to build. Seriously... everyone has ideas and narrowing your own is difficult enough.

    Defining Product Team

    Ok so you get the point. What I'm proposing is creating a team where everyone plays their part. You do the things you love and you trust others to do the things they love and everyone does it at their best and gets better at what they do. Repetition allows for mastery and also allows for streamlining. So let's talk about the roles. While planning out the roles I used Realtime Board (one of the tools that we would use on the team) to plan out roles and responsibilities. Check out the diagram and the roles below:

    [​IMG]

    • These are your concept artists, your layout sketchers, your sketchup masters, your prototypers, etc.
    • Designers do more than just design maps, they also learn the design "guidelines" and learn to break them when it is necessary.
    • Designers do more than just design content, they design experiences. If they want to create a stealthy experience in Halo they have the ability to.
    • Maps are obviously not the only content to be created for gameplay; so gametype enthusiasts also fall in this category.
    • It isn't that Designers don't build, it is that their skill and motivation lies in a new idea. Every forger has at least a little of this.
    • As part of the team your job as a Designer is to create ideas, brainstorm concepts, spec out products, design intentionally not coincidentally. You write design documents, you convey through art and models, you understand the market competition we are going against, and you also understand your target audience.
    • You work closely with Developers to make your designs a reality, but also having to compromise for feasibility in performance and other budget like concerns. Also sometimes a shape you are looking for is just not possible with the puzzle pieces given. You need to learn to sacrifice your creative freedom.
    • You will also work closely with the QA Manager and Internal Testers, zoning in on feedback related to the design experience that you are trying to build.
    • You will work closely with the Project Manager to prioritize designs and analyze what needs to be built now, and what can wait until later.
    • A good designer doesn't stick to one style, they have an open mind, and explore possibilities. No idea goes unexplored. Designers are trend setters. They see cookie cutters and saw them in pieces to make their own designs.
    • These are your geo-mergers, interlockers, speed forgers, texture obsessed, performance nazis.
    • Developers know the tools better than anyone. If someone says they'd like a flying ship that explodes on impact, the can tell you exactly what you need before they even dig in.
    • These guys build maps faster than you could even imagine, and their maps are SOOO clean. They understand what pieces should go next to others to make a smooth transition.
    • Looking for an exact shape? Developers know the exact combination of pieces in the right rotations to get you what you are looking for. "Have you tried a large, brace here?"
    • They CONSTANTLY fly through their map fixing details, removing Z-Fighting, Ensuring everything is on the right coordinates, all of the colors are set to reference the main colors.
    • As a Developer on the team your job is to take designs and build build build. You build prototypes that a Designer quickly concepts out. You build the Alphas, and the Betas, and the Release Candidates. You obsess over perfection of every object placed. You debate over a Coliseum Wall vs several Large, Braces.
    • You work closely with Designers to make their dreams a reality, tweaking to meet their needs, but also ensuring that they don't get over zealous pushing the budgets too much.
    • You work closely with QA Managers and Internal Testers to ensure that people are falling off the map in the wrong places, make sure lighting is optimal for navigation, and make sure performance isn't harming the experience.
    • A good developer will know all of the tools at his disposal. Every color, every piece, every setting, every scripting possibility. They will also be anal about the product's polish. Making sure that no piece is out of place, or that certain rock is rotated just so.
    • These are your party hosts, your connection to a large testing pool, the guy watching the replays, and keep note of statistics. They know how many times a person has fallen off a particular part of the map. They listen and they take notes.
    • QA Managers love to play the game... a LOT. They have loads of friends, jump into custom lobbies the first chance they get, they save ALL the videos.
    • QA Managers take notes, they know when to not give players a heads up on the map. They can understand the importance of having a FULL lobby of players who have not played the game, and also the importance of having a full lobby of MLG players.
    • They know how to resolve conflicts quickly and not let the party grow out of control.
    • They know all off the HLG players in the community and have to regularly remind people that this is a test for gameplay, not exploits and that exploits are currently being taken care of by the Developer.
    • As a QA Manager on the team you will be responsible for maintaining a list of testers, making sure regular testing sessions are happening, watching replays to confirm feedback from testers, and keeping testing statistics where possible.
    • QA Managers will work closely to communicate all feedback back to Designers and Developers. They'll know which feedback belongs to which person.
    • QA Managers will also work with the Community Managers to ensure that they continue to grow their pool of testers, connecting with new people willing to test. They actively look for potential Internal Testers to join the team.
    • QA Managers will work with the Project Manager to ensure that they have the most influential people testing the products. Knowing who the top streamers are, the top youtubers, and the best HLG testers.
    • A good QA Manager will be good at secretarial work... which isn't a bad thing. They manage multiple simultaneous play sessions. They keep lists of testers. They keep track of which testers have played which maps to ensure Kleenex sessions when necessary. They are probably the most available of the team to play in custom game lobbies next to the Community Managers and Internal Testers. A good QA Manager also knows how to listen to feedback and doesn't take things personally. They resolve a conflict quickly and don't let the vibe of the group fall.
    • These are the hardcore players. They play a lot, they want an invite to everything, they jump on to play custom games as soon as they get home, they love to review stuff, they give you feedback and they will follow you into your forge sessions.
    • These guys can tend to be your critics, sometimes they are a Developer/Designers worst nightmare. They point out the flaws that nobody wants to hear, but everybody needs to hear.
    • First in everything they do. First post, they know about a new map so and so is working on, better yet they've played it before you.
    • Not only are they first, they are also the word of mouth of the community. Praise or condemning from this type of person could spell success or failure as they tell EVERYONE.
    • They will check every nook and cranny of your map, doing things that you never expected them to do.
    • They'll learn the imbalance of your map before you finish the prototype. It's scary.
    • These are your HLG players, they are your MLG players, they are the mini-game lovers, and they are the Matchmaking Try Hards.
    • As an Internal Tester on the team you will play Prototypes as soon as they are ready to go. You will help determine whether or not a Prototype is viable to construct an Alpha for. You will provide feedback at all stages of development. As products reach Beta and Release Candidate status you also run testing sessions. You however will not be privy to the Product Design board, just the internal testing. So you will only know about things that hit prototype. No brainstorming or market analysis or anything.
    • Internal Testers will work closely and report to the QA Managers. They will push feedback to the Trello boards to ensure that the product meets its highest potential. When time comes to go to Public Beta and Release Candidates, they work with the QA Managers and other Internal Testers to coordinate hosting testing sessions and running custom game lobbies.
    • Internal Testers will also work closely with Community Managers, as Internal Testers are typically involved community members of their respective communities. They will also grow their friends list to always ensure that they have enough testers to test things on their own.
    • A good Internal Tester will be one that takes the initiative to run testing sessions and brings back all of the feedback they can gather. They are consistent and punctual to testing and they are a friendly bunch. But they aren't afraid to get critical when they need to be. However, they have a sense of tactfulness that is needed when working with the babies of the Developers and Designers.
    • These are your journalists, your friend that knows everyone, the person everyone likes, they have connections everywhere, and can pull in randoms out of a hat. They are your public face.
    • Community Managers will interact with the world while products are being worked on. They probably spend more time on the forums than you or I.
    • These people are crazy sociable, but also very tactful in every response they give. They know how to watch their tongue and also how not to get in trouble while being brutally honest.
    • They answer questions... ALL the time. They know where you can find X resource on what community and what content is the most popular right now.
    • They are pros at retaining interest on threads. Threads that the Community Manager cares about will never die.
    • They also know how to find X person at what times of day. It's kind of creepy.
    • Their name never leaves the shoutbox list.
    • As a Community Manager on the team you will be the public face. You will reply to posts, make sure people are seeing posts and giving feedback. You are also keeping tracks of what communities exist, what products should be advertised where. You will also be responsible for participating in Market/Audience Analysis to help prioritize products.
    • Community Managers work closely with QA Managers to ensure a steady flow of growing testers. They also get testing feedback and communicate it to more public sources and redirect it back to QA. They know where products are being talked about and why.
    • Community Managers are also a link to the entire team when certain answers need to be given. For example, a question on the atmosphere of a product would be redirected to a Designer.
    • Community Managers will also be close with the Project Managers, planning on when to release content, what kind of content should be built to meet the needs of the public, and also to maintain good relationships with communities and influential individuals.
    • A good Community Manager will think before they speak. They know how to play the mediator of the boards and diffuse conflicts as they form. They make sure topics stay on topic and they know how to spread the word to the right communities without being labeled as a person just spamming communities with posts. They are just as active in the communities that we spread the word to as they are in the team Trello boards. They understand what the community wants and where the saturation of content is.
    • Currently this position is held by me, so I'm not going to cover it. Cuz I'm also sick of typing. When it is time to pass the mantle or get another project manager, I will make sure I fill this position in.
     
  2. Ray Benefield

    Ray Benefield Godly Perfection
    Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    510
    Project Management Tools

    As mentioned we will be using Realtime Board (a digital infinite whiteboard), Google Drive (for large documents and images and stuff), and Trello (for project management and organization). These tools will help us stay truly organized and allow us to do what other teams can't. Below is how we plan on using Trello (these post it images are made by Realtime Board):

    [​IMG]

    Assumed FAQ

    Well good fellow, because I don't like doing the same thing twice. Also, I'm great at theory, but mediocre at execution. There are much better designers and developers out there. I've walked the gambit from new forger, to part of a team with Forgehub, to hosting lobby after lobby of games, to rebel growing another community, to solo running a blog of Forge Lessons, to working with a team to curate content for matchmaking. It's time to change things up again. In my opinion, I have valuable experience, and I've met a lot of people and I think if the right people are brought together with the right organization, something beautiful can come out of it.
    Oh you snarky person you. The answer is definitely no. Of course I will be putting in my own ideas and designs into the private arena, but ultimately the team decides as a group where we put our efforts. The Designers won't be the only idea people, but the whole team will participate in that. Everyone has ideas, Designers just spec them out deeper. So yes Developers, QA Managers, and Community Managers will also put in their ideas to the pot. Sorry Internal Testers, there will be a lot of you and you won't have access to the Product Design board.
    Well Halo 5's Forge was just showcased so everyone's hype is up. But most importantly is that you don't need Halo's Forge unless you are a Developer. Every other part of the team can do work before Halo even comes out. Market Analysis, Designs, Brainstorming, Speculating, Making Connections, Sketching, Prototyping, etc. You can do a lot and I know several people who are already preparing.
    Not a question, but something I will respond to. I've always taken Forge seriously... because Forge is more than meets the eye. Forge is game design, product development, community management, and various other skills all packed into a neat little package. It just needs to be harnessed in the right way. I know several people who have gotten jobs from being a major part of the community. That is what we are doing here. But don't get me wrong, just because we take what we do seriously doesn't mean we don't have fun. Halo is a game folks. I just like to feel productive and have my games enrich my life, not take away from it.
    Well we don't want to build a whole new community, that is ridiculous as the forging community is small enough. We also need some privacy for the research and brainstorming we will be doing. Communication will be done partially through email, but mostly through the Trello boards. For those that don't know what Trello is, take a look at it. Many teams use it as essentially a board of lists of cards that need to be done. If you've ever heard of a ticketing system, or you understand the concept of "tasks" then it is sort of like that. Aside from Trello we will also be using Google Drive for more in-depth content. Realtime Board will be used for brainstorming sessions (this is basically a digital whiteboard).
    Experience and public facing recognition. You also get the chance to be a part of a ton of projects. Not only do you get yourself and your fans being into what you are doing, but you get everyone else on the team and all of their fans being into what you are doing. The team gets recognized as a whole. Your name gets put on anything that you are a part of. Obviously if you weren't the Designer or the Developer and didn't touch a product you don't get your name on it, but it still comes from the team. I plan to use this as resume fodder, and so should you. I actually have Community Cartographer and Community Level Designer on the resume that got me my current Lead Java Application Engineer position. It is good stuff trust me. Working with a team is definitely valuable.
    Well for a few people I will actually be sending invites to and linking back to this post. I'm mostly looking for veterans of forge right now. If I've worked with you or am familiar with your work then you have a better chance obviously, but I'm being objective. What I'm mostly looking for is not just talent, but people that I feel can work in a team environment and could actually flourish. This will be treated like a regular job and those not doing their part may have to take a step down to make sure that we keep the team constantly doing stuff and not stale. So the team will constantly evolve and could potentially grow to be a very large team depending on the success of it. So send me a message here on Forgehub and get in on some of this action.
    Another not question, but definitely a good point. This team LIVES off of its consumers... the players. I've put mechanisms into place to incorporate the community. There is a Public Roadmap Trello board setup for all of our Public Betas, Release Candidates, and Events. We will also have a public Team Portfolio Trello board setup with a profile card for every team member (excluding Internal Testers) as well as a list for every product we release. These lists will contain cards with the download link, stats, screenshots, videos, reviews, etc. They will be sorted by most recently released.
    I'll still be going through this process myself, even if nobody joins me. I'll be covering whatever positions are not filled. Simple as that. What I've built is a powerfully organized system that could help any forger so I plan on taking advantage of that.
    So something I learned from doing Think Twice with A 3 Legged Goat, Sven, and Jonzorz is that doing an Alpha and Beta was EXTREMELY valuable. Because this was a system that we could communicate how far along the map was in the process. When we told people that they shouldn't worry about the aesthetics because it was an Alpha, people ACTUALLY listened. And when you tell people your product is in Prototype, Alpha, Beta, and Release Candidate people expect that you will make changes and are less harsh when giving feedback because they see you are open to evolving the product rather than locking down to just your thoughts on the product. The product development cycle is one of constant iteration and this is just one of the tools we will be using to make the best content that we can.
    No more so than any forger who knows a Community Cartographer. Products by the team will not be pushed any harder than any other content up for matchmaking. I will not make deals with other CCs, or anything to make sure that it gets to where it needs to go. We play fairly. We create content. The point of this is to create a streamlined system so we can function as a content creation machine! Of course being a CC myself and potentially having other CCs on the team can lead to some assumptions, but ever since I've been a CC I always make sure an un-involved CC believes it is worth putting up before every submitting anything made by me. This same philosophy will go with any content by the team. So actually it will be harder for content by the team to get submitted because it will be gated by any CCs not on the team as well as the ones on the team.
    Not in the slightest. And not only will we be doing gametypes, we will also be hosting events. Also one of my goals is to continuously give back to the community. We will be putting in research and effort to make tools that make our lives easier. Think sketchup components, tools that utilize the Halo API, processes that we've found make life easier, any discoveries in the Forge tool that we discover, etc. We are in the business for the community, not for ourselves. So design articles, videos, etc. could also be a thing. Just need a testing group, let one of us know and we'll round some people up.
    Well good news is that our testing lobbies will mostly allow others to test their maps as well. There may be situations where we need to host dedicated sessions because we are on crunch time or need footage or something, but for the most part when we host you can join us to get your stuff tested with our Internal Testers and tap into our massive list of people to invite for games. It will be one of the services we use to give back to the community.
    Ah yes, something we will also do is take on contracts. We have resources available and we want to help others realize their vision. For example say a person is on vacation for a month and can't get to their Xbox. Send us your design and we will get it developed, tested and have it ready when you get back. Or perhaps you are starving for ideas and want to build something. We probably have a prototype or two that is on the backlog waiting to be built that you could pick up. Perhaps you want to make videos for some of the content. Who knows? Anything goes, just open up a communication channel.
    Yep, here are the links to the two public Trello boards:
    • Public Roadmap
      • https://trello.com/b/mwDkHaij/fpt-public-roadmap
      • As I mentioned this will be where all of our Public Betas and Release Candidates will go. You can use the Calendar to keep tabs on what is coming up. By creating a Trello account and "Voting" on play sessions you will get an invite when the session starts as long as there is still room.
    • Team Portfolio
      • https://trello.com/b/6zr5OAe3/fpt-team-portfolio
      • This will host profile cards for every member of the team as well as be a place where we store all of our released content and everything linking to it. Screenshots, trailers, reviews, etc.
    Behind the scenes we have two other Trello boards, one for Internal Testers to run Prototype and Alpha testing sessions, and another for Product Design where the team brainstorms, plans, prioritizes, grabs tasks, etc. This will be hidden to Internal Testers and the Public.
    Ok so I know I said this would be treated like a job, but it was more in the perspective of you have responsibilities and you choose the responsibilities you take on and you are expected to follow through with what you take on. Eventually a length of inactivity (I'm very understanding in this... trust me), I'll talk to you about stepping to the side. So no worries on time commitment. The bonus of this system is it actually means you have less of a time commitment than being a solo forger as once you have done your part, the rest can be taken care of by the rest of the team. The original Designer and the original Developer don't have to be the team members that finish that project. Once the initial work is done it becomes a team responsibility to push it through the pipeline.
    Well good sir, I can tell you from personal experience, at least in my career field of Software Engineering, that MOST employers appreciate seeing activity like this. Dedication is a very powerful trait, and teamwork is also very well respected. Doing things like organizing your free time like this and remaining productive are very attractive traits to an employer. It is similar to the response you get with extracurricular activities and volunteer work. Trust me, it is valuable even if it isn't directly relate-able or relevant to your goals.
    This is a delicate topic. I plan on setting up a relatively standard piece of writing with the equivalent of an NDA for the Product Design board which you can't gain access to or be on the core team without giving responding that you agree to the writing. Essentially the goal is that we collaborate on ideas together, and while you are part of the team you should definitely not be spreading ideas outside of the team at all. If you end up splitting off from the team and feel particularly tied to a concept, you can discuss with the Project Manager about relinquishing rights of the idea to you so you can pursue it on your own. As long as the rest of the team is relatively cool about it. In the end the Project Manager has final say on disputes over an idea and its ownership. An agreement may come up that both the team and the individual leaving has rights to it. Every situation is flexible, just communicate with your Project Manager regularly.
    Funny story, EVERY company has individuals who don't work well together. Part of the "job" part is learning to compromise and come to an agreement that people can at least agree to disagree on. Trust me I understand not being able to align myself with a particular decision. But I've learned to suck it up and learn to pick my battles. It is a delicate skill that I think everyone can gain from and part of being on this team will be growing team skills like this that will help you grow yourself as a person which will be great for any career you decide to tackle. It isn't about finding a team that works well together, it is about finding a team that can treat each other professionally and respectfully. Arguments, conflict, disagreements, confrontations, etc. all will happen and are expected. Creative particularly pulls out the defending side of us. So we use that to build or negotiation side.

    In Closing

    I've put a lot of thought and preparation into this idea, and I will equally put that much work into making it a solid team that doesn't just help the team members, but also provides a great amount of content for the forging community at large. Thank you for your time folks and my apologies for a ridiculously long post. lol... I hope to hear some feedback and questions from some of you and hopefully here some interest from some of you. Tomorrow I will start sending out invites, but feel free to hit me up prior to an invite being sent out if you are interested.
     
    #2 Ray Benefield, Oct 19, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  3. SecretSchnitzel

    SecretSchnitzel Donald Trump
    Senior Member Temporarily Banned Forge Critic

    Messages:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    Nice write ups GP. There's be a lot of chatter going on in the community about how we expect people to branch out and distinguish themselves in these various roles, and Ithink it's pretty cool how you're taking the initiative to lay down a framework that the community can work with going forward.

    Myself, I'm very aware of my short comings as a forger. My eye for aesthetics and how to blend pieces together is probably average at best. My knowledge of scripting is decent, but nothing to brag about. What I am good at is designing layouts, critiquing layouts, and optimizing frame rate performance in maps (which hopefully this won't be an issue this time around). It is for these short comings that I believe I'd be best suited as a Designer/Internal Tester role.

    That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what the community makes, and I'd love to be a part of this.

    Cheers.
     
  4. Blaze

    Blaze Talented
    Creative Force Forge Critic

    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    924
    Intriguing. I'll be following the progression of your idea and if it kicks off with people I feel that could honestly benefit me/my designs I may try to hop aboard. I only have the desire to design pure functionality and then slack heavily on the rest of the process, so I completely understand why you would want to create a team like this. This would also free up time for each of the people involved to do more of what they love which is what interest me. That being said, I feel it will be very hard to find a team that will work well together as I've seen how stubborn and close minded forgers can be with everything from gameplay preferences to compromising design for theming, etc. It's a nice idea though and I'll be keeping my eye on this.

    Edit: I would fall under the role of a designer. Block out forms I'd say are my strongest values as I can provide plenty of original and unique layouts. But I lack the desire to polish or refine art and spawns.
     
    #4 Blaze, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
    Ray Benefield and MultiLockOn like this.
  5. darkprince909

    darkprince909 Talented
    Creative Force

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    327
    I feel like the part I'm best at is the actual forging of the layout, especially if I'm working off a blueprint of some kind. That's why my remake maps were always much better than my originals: I had a frame of reference for the remakes, and until now, I never really bothered to chart out the originals (and how good my designs for H5 are remains to be seen). I might be interested in a developer role after I get a bit of practice.
     
    Charybdis and Ray Benefield like this.
  6. A 3 Legged Goat

    A 3 Legged Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
    Wiki Contributor Senior Member Forge Critic

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    8,781
    Great read, Godly. I know you expect me to jump into this, and i hate that you'd probably be right. I personally fit into the designer role about 80% of the way (the other 20% is missing because I never finish maps) and the Developer role 99% (wut r scripts i don't even).

    The creative process is my home and it is one of my goals to eventually end up in a meeting room with a whiteboard that I can bounce ideas off of people with. I can't think of a better privilege for a creative person, and by all counts this is right up my alley....

    ...it just depends on time commitment. In the days of Reach, this is something I'd have had no problem hopping on. If play the game all day, why not do something productive alongside of it? That's no longer the case, and I imagine for you it isn't either; therefore, I'm cautious of how much gaming-related responsibility I take on at the moment. This at least looks great on a resume, but it'll be hard to treat it like a job if it isn't lucrative in some fashion. I don't imagine financial opportunities via Forge, so I'm looking more on the marketing side. For something of this caliber, I wouldn't want us to pull any punches.
     
    #6 A 3 Legged Goat, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
    Charybdis and Ray Benefield like this.
  7. Ray Benefield

    Ray Benefield Godly Perfection
    Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    510
    Thanks for all the great replies everyone. I understand concerns and I've tackled each one in-depth and personally below. This project is very close to my heart and I have done a lot of consideration on many facets of this. I'm not one to tackle a project lightly and many of you know from my history that I make big leaps and tend to put dents into the ebb and flow of things. ;) I'm more than dedicated to the success of this and everyone that is a part of this. When it comes time to dish out recommendations to future interviewers for people as to how you play as a team member, I'm more than willing to speak up. You can add me as a reference if I've worked with you. I've already been a reference to a couple forger friends in the past for IRL jobs as I can speak to their character and ability to work in a team. And I'll be starting my own company or two in the near future. I have my eyes set on entrepreneurship, I could be a valuable connection. ;) *cough* lol... (emphasis on *could* I'm not that big headed)

    Off to work for me folks. Remember that messages in my inbox are important for accounting purposes. And from there it will evolve into email. This is all written after the stuff I wrote below. ;)

    Based on the current posts I've added the following questions to the FAQ:

    Ok so I know I said this would be treated like a job, but it was more in the perspective of you have responsibilities and you choose the responsibilities you take on and you are expected to follow through with what you take on. Eventually a length of inactivity (I'm very understanding in this... trust me), I'll talk to you about stepping to the side. So no worries on time commitment. The bonus of this system is it actually means you have less of a time commitment than being a solo forger as once you have done your part, the rest can be taken care of by the rest of the team. The original Designer and the original Developer don't have to be the team members that finish that project. Once the initial work is done it becomes a team responsibility to push it through the pipeline.
    Well good sir, I can tell you from personal experience, at least in my career field of Software Engineering, that MOST employers appreciate seeing activity like this. Dedication is a very powerful trait, and teamwork is also very well respected. Doing things like organizing your free time like this and remaining productive are very attractive traits to an employer. It is similar to the response you get with extracurricular activities and volunteer work. Trust me, it is valuable even if it isn't directly relate-able or relevant to your goals.
    This is a delicate topic. I plan on setting up a relatively standard piece of writing with the equivalent of an NDA for the Product Design board which you can't gain access to or be on the core team without giving responding that you agree to the writing. Essentially the goal is that we collaborate on ideas together, and while you are part of the team you should definitely not be spreading ideas outside of the team at all. If you end up splitting off from the team and feel particularly tied to a concept, you can discuss with the Project Manager about relinquishing rights of the idea to you so you can pursue it on your own. As long as the rest of the team is relatively cool about it. In the end the Project Manager has final say on disputes over an idea and its ownership. An agreement may come up that both the team and the individual leaving has rights to it. Every situation is flexible, just communicate with your Project Manager regularly.
    Funny story, EVERY company has individuals who don't work well together. Part of the "job" part is learning to compromise and come to an agreement that people can at least agree to disagree on. Trust me I understand not being able to align myself with a particular decision. But I've learned to suck it up and learn to pick my battles. It is a delicate skill that I think everyone can gain from and part of being on this team will be growing team skills like this that will help you grow yourself as a person which will be great for any career you decide to tackle. It isn't about finding a team that works well together, it is about finding a team that can treat each other professionally and respectfully. Arguments, conflict, disagreements, confrontations, etc. all will happen and are expected. Creative particularly pulls out the defending side of us. So we use that to build or negotiation side.

    Thank you SS. I truly respect your perspective on things, even though you and I have a history of butting heads on a few things here and there. ;) I'm glad you too have seen the movement towards particular roles of the content pipeline. I think this feels like a natural evolution of the community, and somebody needs to take it on. I like doing things differently and I have project management experience so I think this could benefit everyone involved. I hope that this isn't the end either. I hope this inspires people to do more and be more going forward. Whether teams get more organized, or people start forming contracts with specialists to get certain tasks done I'm all for the community evolving.

    Good news is every member of the core team will also be a member of the Internal Test team. So as a Designer you can also fulfill that role when the time comes. I definitely expect a lot of team members pulling double duty especially early on as the team grows. And I'd love to have you be a part of this. I think with the right management a lot can be accomplished as long as things are kept professional. The forging community is filled with a lot of arrogance and stubborn people. So part of the goal of this will be teaching people to quell that initial fight or flight response and work towards agreements and negotiations.

    Please send me a message so we can dive into this further and discuss details. Messages in my inbox are easier to keep track of and more personal.

    Yeah a lot of people definitely tend to have their eye on a certain part of the process and love doing that, and then feel a bit of guilt for not fully doing the rest of the pipeline. This team is definitely designed to counteract that and make people more proud of their work rather than feeling like they can't accomplish anything. I know I've had a lot of projects that I've just come short of in terms of having the dedication to see it through. Some people have an issue with trusting their own designs, and some just have an issue with putting in the time to polish and iterate. In the end everyone will be working only on the part of the process that they love. Some people don't feel confident in their designs, but love playing and giving feedback and experiencing new content. Some people love to hang out with others. So there is a little something for everyone.

    As a side note, the goals are towards making sure everyone gets something out of doing this. It is a commitment for sure early on. So not just in thinking of how a single person can benefit, but also considering how much others can benefit. Some of us have sooo many ideas, and just even mentioning them or bouncing them off of others can spawn new concepts that wouldn't have been possible on your own.

    The good news is with how early on in the process this is, the risk is minimal early. Because right now everyone is waiting to play Halo, and others are just waiting on Forge. Forge isn't just building the map. We can start building tester connections early, designing maps early, investigating our target audience from matchmaking, and brainstorming as a collective. This will also give us the chance to form strong bonds going forward getting ready to tackle a HUGE project as a group and hit the ground running... faster than any other person individually. So I strongly request that you consider jumping on earlier rather than later as the risk is minimal and the potential for reward is great at this point since Forge isn't even out yet.

    As a forger you have had all the practice you need for a Developer role. The tools aren't out yet so the skills that you can be building is learning to collaborate with Designers, and figuring out their goals and translating them into something that makes sense to you. It takes effort to come to what's known as a "Shared Understanding", when someone puts an idea to paper everyone interprets it differently and it takes true communication to really nail down a shared image in everyone's head. So if you feel you don't have the practice yet, I suggest you jump in and give it a shot and gain that practice as you go. This is a growing experience for everyone involved. No reason you can't start now and build relationships early on. There are skills that exist outside of Forge that I think will be very valuable to you as a Developer good sir. ;) I hope you'll consider tackling this earlier rather than later.

    Oh Goat you and I go way back. lol... I definitely think earlier on Developer would be best for you, but as I was mentioning everyone will pretty much probably tackle double duty and I can easily see you running double duty as a Designer. Especially since you are already drawing out concepts, sketching out layouts, etc. Especially with forge not around pulling Designer skills out of your hat would be valuable to everyone involved. You have a TON of great ideas and if we can pass those ideas around and evolve them, we could come up with some great products. As a Developer, the design is not yours alone (I plan to push Developers to not tackle their own designs, but tackle someone else's) so because of that there is a responsibility to help fulfill the dream of the team. It isn't just your judgement of the content that matters, but the team's as a whole. You tend to let a lot of projects fall to your side, where I think they could flourish with the right perspectives and having a team support that I think would be to your benefit.

    Also you are a CRAZY speed forger and I don't know how you do it. lol... I come back after a night and you've already got a map ready for prototyping. That is CRAZY valuable. And it'd be awesome to have that as part of the team.

    As for time commitment I spoke to that in the questions above. Basically, I have a 6 digit job now so I too won't have much time. The beauty of the "job" portion is the professionalism, not the time commitment. You choose what you tackle as responsibilities, they are not forced on you. Naturally going idle has to be handled, but tackling your choice of workload is more than recommended. I would never force too much on someone's plate unless they made the commitment already. And even then, once the initial work is done it can be taken over by another on the team so you are already covered. This approach ensures that those of us with less time, can actually be tide to completed projects in a portfolio rather than sitting back with a lot of unfinished work hidden away for nobody to really see, or not polished enough for public viewing. There is definitely not obvious value to Forge in and of itself, but the skills you gain from working as a team are far more valuable than the skills of working solo. So if you plan to spend any significant portion of the game forging, I personally think an initiative like this would be more than valuable for you.

    I definitely understand the caution of taking something like this on. But as I was mentioning to the other replies... early on the risk is little and the creative side and brainstorming and relationship building and connection making can all happen NOW before Forge even comes out. Having a pool of well developed ideas that are spec'd out by different individuals from different perspectives will be valuable as soon as Forge hits. We can have several products done and in prototype in the first week EASY. And potentially have some public Betas as early as week two depending on if we get enough Internal Testers for Prototypes and Alphas. The possibilities and the saved amount of time of not having to polish, test, iterate, publish alone is worth the consideration bro. ;)
     
    MultiLockOn and A 3 Legged Goat like this.
  8. Zombievillan

    Zombievillan Legendary
    Senior Member Forge Critic

    Messages:
    2,232
    Likes Received:
    2,139
    Yeah as cool as this sounds, and I'd love to be a developer, I just couldn't put in the time this would demand. Like goat stated, I could have done this in Halo 3 or Reach but now I work more hours & am married & a father to 2 kids, one of which plays sports so time is unbelievably limited nowadays. This makes it even harder as a soloist because my normal gaming time now is late at night. You know how hard it is to test a map on a late Friday or Saturday night? That seems like the team would help me drastically but I wouldn't be able to do my part in a timely manner in comparison to the rest of the team.

    Now put a salary on there & that becomes a different story lol.
     
    Ray Benefield and Given To Fly like this.
  9. A 3 Legged Goat

    A 3 Legged Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
    Wiki Contributor Senior Member Forge Critic

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    8,781
    Indeed, we have had some ups and downs, but the highs were up in the skybox about 100 coordinates higher than the lows. I've been waiting ages to get back in that scene with the gang again. I even heard Sven is remaking Contact for the 10th time
    [​IMG]

    When it comes to the Designer role, I think my issue has always been the lack of critical feedback early on in the process. I'll take designs 80% of the way and then discover a fundamental flaw at that point, which often causes me to lose faith and abandon it or throw it in the endless revision cycle.

    With this kind of environment (and especially with this Forge), I do not foresee that being an issue. With the right feedback injected into a design early on, I think the projects people like me start will have a much better shot at being seen to fruition. In the world of professional level design, you can't afford to scrap everything you build. The flip side of that however is that I don't want to dedicate time into a design that should have stayed in the oven for a longer period of time.

    On the Developer side of things, I can absolutely help block out ideas and clean up maps where necessary. I don't know about being the guy who builds other people's designs for them though, unless it's an adoptable or leased out to the point where the Developers have creative input. I'm les likely to bring out my best on a design I don't feel strongly about, and I wouldn't hesitate to call someone out for remaking Chiron TL-43 (keeping it professional of course!)

    I wouldn't say that'd make me hard to work with (although it may have in the past). I'd just be doing myself a disservice by limiting my strengths to the instrumentation aspect of the project. I'm afraid that most people aren't going to redesign their map from scratch if necessary though; you're the only other crazy person I know who will rebuild an entire map to fix the tiniest issue.

    Nevertheless, I'm interested and am looking forward to when you get this started.

    Also, I think my friend RipShade might be interested in this. He's good at the game and can pull ideas out of a white rabbit, so I'd recommend him for Designer and Playtesting roles.
     
    #9 A 3 Legged Goat, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
    Ray Benefield likes this.
  10. Dorque_Fu

    Dorque_Fu Marine

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    19
    New here, but forging for a long time and following a lot of what ya'll have been doing. Love this idea, GP. Definitely be cool to see this come together as I think it could really become a "brand" in the Halo community more than ForgeHub maps already are.

    Assembly line Forging (depending on project and team of course) could help create some really great maps that the community could really get into.
     
    Ray Benefield likes this.
  11. cluckinho

    cluckinho Well Known
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    352
    This is a good idea. Really good actually, but I'm not the type of person that would fit into this type of thing so well. Treating map creation like a job just takes all of the fun and spontaneity out of it for me. Though I have absolutely no doubt that this type of system will attract many people, and that it will produce some really quality maps.

    I'll be keeping tabs on this to see how it goes. Good luck, I hope it turns out well.
     
    Ray Benefield and Blaze like this.
  12. moo43

    moo43 Talented
    Forge Critic

    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    123
    Wow this must of taken a while to write. This is definitely an interesting idea. It would be cool if you could get a dedicated group of people to support something like this. It would be a good way for someone to get to be involved in several quality projects instead of just aimlessly putting out map after map with no real direction.

    Personally I like to work out ideas on my own and get feedback after the initial layout is complete. But I will be curious to see if you get this to workout. Good luck.
     
    Ray Benefield likes this.
  13. WARHOLIC

    WARHOLIC Cartographer
    The Creator Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    3,124
    What is the team going to be called? Will there be other teams to compete against? If so, this may interest me :devil:

    This is a unique approach to how I'm used to building maps. I don't know if this is what you want to hear but I like to do most things myself. I learn through doing. Challenging myself with things I'm not very comfortable with has really helped me grow over time. I'm sure this will be fantastic for the right people. My eyes are open :3D:
     
  14. A 3 Legged Goat

    A 3 Legged Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
    Wiki Contributor Senior Member Forge Critic

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    8,781
    I've always liked the idea of a team of "developers" creating a steady stream of high quality Forge content and then releasing monthly map packs of sorts. The creative process therein is invaluable, but it's definitely not something I'd want to be wrapped up too far in. Even though I'm primarily interested in this game for Forge, there are days where I want to play the game and not Forge, and days where I don't want to play at all. And as War said, sometimes I just want to work on my own and challenge myself.

    Think the trick with this would be in finding the right collaborative process and workflow to benefit anyone who is part of it.
     
    Ray Benefield likes this.
  15. Ray Benefield

    Ray Benefield Godly Perfection
    Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    510
    I feel you man. I'm working a full time job as a lead engineer, a 4 yo, a partner, going through a divorce, working as a CC, and building up a company while building its product. So yeah I get the time thing. The beautiful thing about the team is that your part can be as large or small as you like. You can jump on asynchronously share your ideas and brainstorm, perhaps give some feedback and thoughts on growing designs. As a Developer you'd build quick prototypes or you would build up Alphas based on prototypes, or you would polish maps to Beta or Release Candidate. You don't need to be the one testing, that is what QA Managers and Testers are for. They leave feedback for both the Designer and the Developer to tackle when they get the chance. Other Developers can take over as well throughout the process, you don't need to see a map all the way through. Perhaps you just spend a night building a prototype and that's the only part of the process you take part in. No need to worry about screenshots, designing, interacting a lot with others, publishing, etc. That is all done by however decides to tackle it. Some will have more time than others.

    I designed the system for people like us that have a limited amount of time to begin with, but want to continue doing something they love. This provides the best of both worlds and if you are going to be forging anyway, sometimes it is nice to be able to drop it whenever you need to. It is a pipeline where the content gets picked up to be worked on and then put back in the pipeline for someone else to pick it up and polish it up. But again we all need to find what is good for us. Salaries come later good sir. :p But yeah if timeliness is your concern and letting the rest of the team down or not doing as much, that isn't a problem at all actually because of the nature of the system.

    That's understandable, as a Designer one benefit is that people don't mind if you table a project. It will go into the backlog for someone else to tackle another time or redesign from the ground up. The original Designers and Developers don't have to be the same ones going forward. New pairs of eyes means that projects like that don't get lost in a hard drive. And rather than sitting on your hard drive it is available for everyone to take a look at anytime they want to. The entire team now has access to the backlog of every other team member for inspiration for the next project. You think you have a lot of ideas? Think of how valuable those ideas are to others? It could spark the plans for the next Lockout... you know what I mean.

    As a Developer, no Developer will be forced into a situation they don't want. Part of the goals of a Designer is to make the design something that others are passionate about, not just themselves. Fleshed out Designs sit on the board waiting to be prototyped when a Developer decides to pick it up for prototyping. Developers wouldn't be assigned work, they would pick the work they want to be involved in. This helps out tenfold as it encourages Designers to get Developers interested, and pushes them to design better to grab appeal. For Developers it means that they only have to take on projects that they choose to be invested in. And if you decide after the prototype that it isn't your thing, that's perfectly fine, just post that you'd like someone else to tackle the next iteration and someone else has the option to pick it up. The pipeline provides the ability to grab what you want in the pipeline, make it better and put it back better than it was. Then others can do the same. You don't have to be dedicated to a project for its entire lifecycle. And perhaps a map is done with its Beta is nobody wants to build the Release Candidate... there is probably good reason for that, if the Developers don't want to build it then who would really want to play it? So it goes into the backlog waiting to be picked up when a Developer decides, you know what this is the best option right now in the backlog so I'll work on this real quick as it only needs a few quick changes.

    And Developers are NOT shut out from the design process, they are a part of it. They are consultants as much as they are actual developers. Their input is just as important as anyone else's and obviously when a Developer picks up a card, they have freedom to make a design in their eyes that meets the requirements while working with the Designers to figure out what is actually better. No single person holds just one job. Developers are just as important to design as Designers are to development. It is a two way street.

    I think more people will be ok with scraping a design due to a flaw more when there are tons of projects to go around. Because if one isn't being worked on it just means others are being worked on instead. Solo forgers have to eventually come back to a project they ditched or finish a project all the way through. With the team you could start a new project every day if you wanted, without ever seeing a single one to the end. Because every bit of work you do, enables someone else to do more work on it later.

    As far as "Map packs", not what I'm looking for. When a map is done it is done. This is continuous development, not packaging loads of content. Continuous means we have reason for people to continually check us out and figure out what the latest content might be. Anyways, like you said some days you don't want to forge, some days you just want to play, and others you don't even want to boot up Halo. That is OK because of the pipeline, you aren't the only one that can do your job, others can jump in and do it in place of you. This system is more flexible and opens up more options for people to do what they enjoy which includes just playing Halo sometimes. And things like Design can be done outside of Halo too so staying off the Xbox period can be a thing. Technically a Designer, Community Guy, Project Manager may never have to boot up Halo EVER but still do their part in the process. It is a beautiful concept. The first bits of brainstorming and collaboration should actually start this weekend if you are interested. We are starting as soon as possible.

    Thanks Dorque. :) I completely agree and I appreciate your support. Brand can be a powerful thing going forward as well. One of the things we will be doing is compiling a list of testers (not just internal testers, but a list of ALL regular custom game players). Resources like this will be invaluable to the team and a brand can help easily fill lobbies. Would you be interested in perhaps being a part of that list, or even becoming an Internal Tester? We'll actually need a lot of Internal Testers on launch for week 1 prototypes.

    Thanks Cluck. :) Labeling it as a job isn't always bad. Some people love doing contract jobs with flexible hours and doing what you want to do for work. We are definitely not trying to take the fun out of it. We are shooting for a way to expand a person's horizons and experience. That in and of itself can be quite the exhilarating experience. If you ever change your mind and want to give it a shot. Just let me know bro. My inbox is always open. ;)

    Thanks for the luck. Every bit is appreciated man.

    Thanks moo! As I've been saying every little bit of support helps. All the luck and good feedback is awesome. And I definitely expected many to not feel like they fit into the model. But perhaps we'll see after the model has been put to the test. It could be more valuable than people are expecting, even for people who are naturally a solo artist. Direction can be powerful for a lot of individuals. I'm hopeful that some people who like working out ideas on their own, give the system a shot and try to explore the potential value in collaborative design for their own needs.

    All in good time. ;) I'll try to be as persuasive as possible without being naggy and invasive. lol... let me know if you ever decide to give it a shot.

    As I was saying above War, solo is totally cool but this may have value in a way you may not expect. We'll see how things actually play out and maybe I can be persuasive. ;) lol... I'm totally cool with hearing whatever you feel suits you so no worries about that. I'm not offended. Perhaps a challenge could be working with others to really flesh out an idea. eh? lol...

    As far as team name, that will be an internal discussion and we'll probably come up with something. I already have one suggestion I actually kind of like. As for competition... who knows? Someone typically always stands up to create competition so we expect it. The thing is the goal isn't to be the best, just to deliver lots of quality content that is also varied. If another team spawns then awesome... the more the merrier.
     
    A 3 Legged Goat, moo43 and cluckinho like this.
  16. fame28

    fame28 Forgotten Treasure
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    289
    I personally would be willing to be an internal tester as 99% of the time I am home on the weekends and available after 9pm (EST). I think it would be awesome if Forghub or Halo Customs had a push notification app for phones to invite people for custom games. It could be either games of their interest (infection, competitive and so on). It would also work well for announcing team meeting times and internal testing for this group as well.
     
  17. MythicFritz

    MythicFritz Halo 3 Era
    Creative Force

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    178
    I'm so intrigued right now Godly. Full time job, wife, toddlers, side jobs blah blah like everyone else these days. Like you said, I do see this allowing someone with limited time to still be an active, major contributor to a project. And like Goat said, I'd love to work with some of the old crew again.

    Sketchup and AutoCAD are awesome. I think I'd enjoy throwing some ideas together then passing them off to someone like Schnitzel to perfect the layout. I probably wont be getting H5 until Christmas anyway.

    On the other side, I always enjoyed critiquing other map designs and helping with optimization. I loved jumping into someone else's map and blowing the occasional mind with something they never even considered.

    I hope you can make this happen. And hopefully I can help.
     
    Blaze likes this.
  18. Cryptokid

    Cryptokid Legendary
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    7
    Guys don't listen, he's just secretly using you all to finish Double Helix!

    Actually though, great post. I'm even more excited about forge now, and very interested in being involved in at least a few aspects of this.
     
    #18 Cryptokid, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    MultiLockOn and Blaze like this.
  19. Ray Benefield

    Ray Benefield Godly Perfection
    Forge Critic

    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    510
    Toss me a message fame! Internal Testers we'll need a TON of, so the more I get setup now before Forge's launch the better. If I get creative I could eventually create a notification system for the Testing Trell0 boards. Part of being part of the team is that if I discover tools to make our life easier like post notifications or something then I can write them. It should help organization and having valuable resources for planning and stuff. I look forward to working with you man.

    MYTHIC!!! Long time no see bro. So yeah all the busy stuff and we can always use more designers. So toss me a message and we will get you setup man. I look forward to working with you again. I'm throwing out invites to tools this week so we can spend this weekend designing if we so choose. Before everyone starts playing on launch. I won't be as I'm working on a couple of debts so I have a solid few weeks to dedicate to setting things up for Forge launch before getting sucked into Halo again.

    ;) Bah! Helix will evolve one day. If you are interested man, send me a message we need to start getting setup now.
     
  20. darkprince909

    darkprince909 Talented
    Creative Force

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    327
    Put me down as a tester
     

Share This Page