Remake Altar

Discussion in 'Reach Competitive Maps' started by stinky earl, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. stinky earl

    stinky earl Legendary
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    Altar gemini remake

    Altar is a remake of the classic Halo 2 map Gemini, itself a re-imagining of the Marathon map Duality.

    When I started to make this map I wanted to somehow catch the psychedelic nature of Covenant themed maps so I tried experimenting with using pieces at different angles, trying to utilize their geometry in different ways, and making use of the surfaces that can have different colors set to them.

    Eventually I started to realize how using the "glass" pieces gave the map a sort of cathedral aesthetic. I always felt that the original map had a sort of temple feel, so I gave up on going psychedelic and instead I went with the cathedral feel. I joked that it is now a church for the worship of the color purple.

    I like to think of it as less of a church and more like a place of reverence where the devout of some unknown faith would flock for pilgrimages. The faithful would gaze in awe at the stone effigies, bow down before the idol, pray at the altar, and cleanse themselves in the mist of the waterfalls on the observation deck.

    Just about everyone should know this map. It's a small map, so it is best for 2-8 players and is set up for most gametypes except for Invasion and Race. I went into the Halo 2 map and studied the flag, bomb, and territory placements and went from there when deciding where to place my own objectives. I had to leave out neutral flag and bomb because the map is just too small and the layout would give one team a serious advantage. I also studied the spawning points in the original as best as I could to aid me with this map.

    I changed a few of the weapons because they aren't in Reach, and I changed a few just to add variety, tweak balance, and for the heck of it. I also tweaked the respawn times in order to keep powerful weapons like the shotty, sword, and focus rifle from over-dominating on such a small map.
    Weapons:
    Needle Rifle x2 (replaces Carbine)
    Focus Rifle x1 (replaces Particle Beam Rifle)
    Plasma Repeater x1 (replaces one of the Shotguns, just for variety)
    Shotgun x1
    Plasma Rifle x2
    Needler x1
    Assault Rifle x2 (replaces two of the Plasma Rifles, for variety)
    Grenade Launcher x1 (replaces one of the Brute Shots)
    Concussions Rifle x1 (replaces one of the Brute Shots)
    Plasma Pistol x2
    Overshield x1
    Plasma Grenade x8
    Energy Sword x1
    Magnum x1 (replaces one of the Needlers, for variety)



    [​IMG]
    The Idol

    [​IMG]
    Curved Ramp

    [​IMG]
    Shrine

    [​IMG]
    The Effigy

    [​IMG]
    One of the Ramp Halls

    [​IMG]
    Behind The Idol

    [​IMG]
    Cathedral

    [​IMG]
    The Observation Deck

    [​IMG]
    Baptismal Platforms

    [​IMG]
    Stunning Vista

    [​IMG]
    For Apt Audiences

    [​IMG]
    Perches

    [​IMG]
    Telly

    Download: Altar
     
    #1 stinky earl, Oct 23, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  2. superguh007

    superguh007 Legendary
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    I downloaded and took a look around. First of all, this map is downright gorgeous. I really like the glass aesthetic and some of the little details. I think using the grid as the altar pool is a little weird, though. You might try using shield doors.

    I have some gameplay criticisms, also. In H2, the sword area was a little larger and the statue was a little more imposing. The tele perches didn't have ridiculous sight lines, whereas now I feel like anyone with a nerfle could block their teleporter and rain death on the poor fools below them, since they can see the entire main hall from up there.
    Next, I really, really don't think the plasma repeater is equal to the shotgun. You're probably fine with the concussion / grenade launcher, though.
    Last, people with jetpack or sprint can get up above the focus spawn without hitting the kill zone. I think you did this on purpose, but as with teleporter perches, I think the position is simply too dominant. I would recommend extending the kill zone to cover that little ledge.

    This map is really cool. You've used a lot of ingenuity to make it look this good. It's certainly my favorite Gemini remake so far. It still needs some work to be perfect, though.
     
    #2 superguh007, Oct 23, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2010
  3. usedgoat

    usedgoat Spartan III

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    Nice, this was my favorite map from Halo 2.

    It looks like a pretty good remake.
     
  4. stinky earl

    stinky earl Legendary
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    Thanks for the critique. I agree that someone could probably block the teleporters on the perches, this is something I never thought of. You said the statue wasn't imposing enough. Maybe I could tweak the statue to offer more cover on the lower floor. I also thought about maybe adding some small walls on the perches to make it easier to land grenades up there, deterring campers.

    As for the ledge above the focus room; I actually added that ledge last minute to deter players from jumping up there and to hide the ugly coliseum wall I used as a ceiling. I did this after I put in the kill zone and it didn't dawn on me that it wasn't covered by the kill zone, and I agree that as it is now it could be a dangerous camping spot. But, I don't think it's that bad as any player can utilize your methods to also get up there and confront campers, unlike the perches where they could block the teleporters.

    I agree that the plasma repeater is not equal to the shotty, but I also didn't like the idea of two shottys being on such a small map along with an energy sword. Too many dominant close quarters weapons. I agree it's a bit of a compromise, but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Pun intended.

    I would like to thank you for your comment on the map being gorgeous. When I realized how nice the glass pieces looked, and how nice the balcony area would be so close to the waterfalls, I decided to run with the theme. So I'm glad somebody appreciated it.

    I actually think I'm going to go into the map and make some tweaks based on your suggestions. I'll post the edits here. Again, thanks for the kind words, and the help.
     
  5. Galargo

    Galargo Spartan III

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    I give it an A+ for aesthetics and no changes necessary. It's a remake and it's impossible to remake this map perfectly so instead you went your own route and created a really nice map. Good job.
     
  6. stinky earl

    stinky earl Legendary
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    ----UPDATE----

    I decided to take superguh007's suggestions to heart and tweak the map a bit. The following changes were made:

    1)A killbox was extended to cover a ledge that could have acted as a camping spot.

    2)The "Idol" was made taller and it's arms/wings were extended and given a greater angle. This makes the "Idol" more imposing, and provides more cover for players on the lower floor from players above them.


    3)The teleporter perches received the greatest attention as their line of sight may have been too great. The aforementioned changes to the "Idol" were one of the changes made to help break up this line of sight. Other changes made were:

    --The Focus Beam had it's ammo clip lowered to keep would be campers from holding onto a power weapon for too long.
    --The perches themselves had a ceiling and railings added. At first glance, the railings don't appear to be much of a change to line of sight, but if a camper chooses to try and stand on top of one of the receiver nodes in an attempt to block the teleporter, their view of a good portion of the map is completely covered, making it somewhat useless to block the teleporter. This makes the railings possibly the most effective change to the map. Coupled with the ceilings, the rails also make the perches act a bit like a basket designed to aid players in landing a grenade, persuading campers to either abandon their post or die trying.
    --Two magnums were placed on the lower level. This was to provide possible victims of perch campers with a scoped weapon in order to knock the camper out of their scope, or make them think twice about the safety of their perch. This was the most drastic change made to the map as it is not faithful to the original Halo 2 map. I felt that the bad line of sight may have changed the map more drastically than adding weapons to counter it. Hopefully the magnums make the map play as well as the original without making it feel different. A third Magnum that originally replaced a Needler for variety was removed and the Needler found it's way back in, helping the map feel more like the original.


    I did not change the map Altar, available above. Instead I saved it as a different map in a different file share here:Altar Of Gemini

    I don't know if I should consider these two to be different maps, as the changes are actually somewhat subtle But I wanted the original Altar map to stick around since it had quite a few downloads and I was proud of it. So I guess I'm just giving anybody that wants to download the map a little variety. Let me know what you think if you don't mind. Any suggestions can not only help me to tweak this map, but also help me understand the map making process for any future maps. Thanks

    Download the original:Altar
    Dowload the updated:Altar Of Gemini
    Download my other map:Medusa
    Medusa's ForgeHub Page:Medusa on ForgeHub
     
    #6 stinky earl, Oct 27, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  7. PacMonster1

    PacMonster1 Senior Member
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    first to dl your touched up version. Also, awesome gamertag...waka waka
     
  8. stinky earl

    stinky earl Legendary
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    Thanks, glad you like the gamertag. I've actually taken a liking to the idea of changing around this map, and I've started poking holes in it like swiss cheese.

    I'm trying to make a map that one might call a "spiritual successor" to Gemini rather than a true remake.

    I basically took this map, Altar, my Gemini remake, and I've started moving stuff around, playing with weapon placement, adding and removing different weapons, and playing with the layout.

    It's not very easy since I used up a pretty good portion of the budget with Altar, and for some reason the changes I'm making are causing the map to lag a bit. But I'm working on it, so I guess my next map will be a pseudo original map based off of Gemini.

    I'll post it if I ever actually finish it and see if anyone accuses me of ripping off Gemini or if they feel as if it can stand on it's own.

    Meanwhile, you can still download Altar, and Altar Of Gemini. And while you're at it, check out my other map, Medusa. I'm proud of it and I really got very little feedback on it. I'd like to know what people think.
     
  9. Galargo

    Galargo Spartan III

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    I'm glad you made the changes in a different map. Let this one stand alone as a remake. It's my favorite Gemini map so far. In fact it's one of my favorite forge remakes of any map so far since it doesn't look like a bunch of gray blocks.
    I'm interested in your "spiritual successor" also. Your aesthetics are great, and I downloaded your other map(I forget what's it's called, sorry) and you seem to know how to make decent maps.
     
  10. A 3 Legged Goat

    A 3 Legged Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
    Senior Member Forge Critic

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    Best remake I've seen so far. The other ones lagged.
     
  11. Galargo

    Galargo Spartan III

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    I nominated this in the Forgehub favorites contest. I've really grown to like this map and have learned a few tricks from it. Good luck Stinky Earl.
     
  12. stinky earl

    stinky earl Legendary
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    Wow, thanks. I doubt it has much chance with so much competition. But it's nice to get some sort of attention.
     
  13. Galargo

    Galargo Spartan III

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    Did anything ever develop from you experimenting with this, your "swiss cheese" version? Just wondering. I've gotten back into mapmaking again and when I came across this one I remembered it fondly.
     

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