4v4 Contest Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Buddy Jumps, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. Buddy Jumps

    Buddy Jumps Jumpmaster

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    I am writing this as a direct response to an open public discussion that took place in this thread about the handling of the 4v4 contest. Said discussion also started before any of the final winners got announced.
    I am very dissapointed in @Max Extra for locking a thread, which helped bring issues of the contest to light and let the community voice their concerns. I utterly condemn this step, as it is threatening the freedom of speech and is looking like an attempt to stop further discussion and cut off any thoughtful replies.
    A discussion that started publicly shouldn't be continued in private conversations, where nobody can track anything and the overall topic can easily be brushed under the carpet.

    With all that being said, let me directly come back to the discussion that took place in the thread I linked:

    That's a good thing to hear! Next time, try to bring that sign of team work more into the open, as the public image is the complete opposite. As I mentioned before, almost everything I say here is also in view of future contests, so preceding issues can be avoided.

    As previously mentioned, I respect you for putting out your thoughts as the only judge during the judging process. Just a quick question: Now that you have dialed back on your 'very basic' feedback to basically be outdated after being called out for its nontruth and low standard, will you update it or is that it?
    In general you seem to dial back a lot. @Box Knows already called out your arrogant statement, which was pretty low, only for you to dial back afterwards. Perversions like that leave people with an unclear impression of you, take that however you want.

    WHAT? This is complete news to me. I've looked through the entire 4v4 contest thread and have not found any comments about that, as well as looked through all announcement threads. Once again, the public perception was as following:
    • On the Trello board all four judges are listed
    • Original 4v4 contest thread still the same information about judging panel
    • No comment about a change of the judging panel
    • No thread post/announcement
    ----> "There must be no changes, right?"

    @Box Knows didn't seem to know that, either, as he mentioned Ascend in his post; I'm sure this was only known to the close circle of the panel. Unless you find a good announcement and not just a short comment in an unrelated thread, what you said is a blatant lie. This all comes full circle with the weak communication that has been called out.

    I insist you read that paragraph again, it looks like you picked two apart statements and fused them together, which is quite unfair to do in a debate. The idea you should get from that paragraph is that, if two team members are unable to pursue the tasks they have been given due to real life problems, then the other team members should try to jump in and compensate the temporary loss.
    I feel for you and @Max Extra for having to move and other issues in that time frame, however that has nothing to do with the points I have made in my posts. Everyone is already over the lateness of the results, so stop bringing that up. It is completely fine for the contest to take longer, if such issues arise. The feedback I am providing is not about the lateness, but how everything else has been handled.


    Well, sorry for being blunt, however I can't imagine that the testing lobbies were very different from what we all saw. Of course you can only speak for yourself, that doesn't alleviate the things Max has been doing.

    Again, stop bringing up how long it took. I don't care and I know that the real life problems came at a bad time. Is that clear?
    In all of my concerns and points I have never said I was bothered about the time span of the contest, so stop making a point out of that. I replied, as I want betterment for future contests and was concerned about the general handling, not because I was butthurt about the length of the whole thing, like what?

    Your offer about discussing the maps individually is commendable, but is not about the contest handling itself, which was primarily discussed.



    Something minor about grammar: In the English language I learned it's called "very", not "vary", as in "very cool". Didn't know, if you know, as you always write it like that. I simply want to make sure, excuse me.
     
    #1 Buddy Jumps, Feb 26, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  2. GrayishPoppy210

    GrayishPoppy210 ONI Agent

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    Note: haven't seen thread. This is all off back of my experience and what you've said in this thread. Will check through other thread later.

    As far as I've seen sethiroths handled this all pretty well. He's really been nothing but apologetic. He's the judge I trust the most to give good feedback and he's given some at least, and has even offered to just go through maps with people. Despite what he says I like to think he ran the contest.

    The lack of feedback I think is mainly up to other judges though I still hope there is some to come.

    I had no idea about the ascend situation so I guess that supports you there. Ascend seems to have moved on to the machinima community now with very little warning. I think a notice would definitely have been nice. I didn't even know about Thursday thirteen ending and I still don't think there's a post in thread saying it's not running now.

    As you say I think the key problem has been lack of communication but as far as I know people haven't been pushing for info and as far as previous contests are concerned, communication has been just as bad. While that doesn't excuse this, it's worth mentioning.

    The Max situation is interesting, with his living situation and all. I'm not really in the know on it, as with everything here really (lack of communication I guess). I understand that delayed the contest but as you say, no one really cares about that. I understand things also may have been stressful and maybe that effected things but I dunno. I didn't know anything about sethiroths living conditions but as I've said, he's been leading the communication and feedback so he's done fine.

    I think Foge is the only other judge (correct if wrong) and I've just heard nothing from him so who knows. Hopefully feedback is to come.

    What I really want is, like you say,better communication and for Foge, Max and Ascend to at least reply to the situation.

    Edit:
    Upon reading the thread I saw max has given feedback. It's ok. Honestly though, the person I most agreed with was chunk and I think you are being a little harsh if I'm honest. I encourage those who haven't looked at the other thread to look through chunks comment especially.
    I also now see that many people didn't like the fact old maps were allowed. This definitely effected the contest with few people having motivation to make new maps but I think if people were unhappy with this they should've made it clear sooner. I kinda disagree with chunk here but it depends what you feel the point of the contest was. He said it's ok to have older maps if the contest is bringing to light maps for matchmaking which is certainly fair. However I like to think the point of this contest and any contest should be to encourage community involvement and lead to the creation of more quality maps. People know what the good older maps are if matchmaking is being considered.

    P.s. hiding this post in off-topic I see... I presume it'll be linked in the WAYWO discord where max isn't present to find and lock it?
     
    #2 GrayishPoppy210, Feb 26, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  3. Buddy Jumps

    Buddy Jumps Jumpmaster

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    What @a Chunk said about the feedback vs no feedback does not make anything better, as I previously mentioned in my comment the panel decided to go the first route in the first place. Same goes with submitting already existing maps.

    You can reread their initial approach here, which is far away from reality.

    Nobody is hiding anything. I tagged Max twice and quoted Seth a bunch of times, if you noticed. Furthermore, every new thread is visible on the right side, when you're on the 'forums' tab. Rash comment.

    There would be no point in hiding this anyway, when I want to publicly discuss the problems and the people to see them and learn for the future.
     
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  4. Sethiroth

    Sethiroth Sensei
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    In terms of my shift on how I am communicating with everyone on this matter was because my friend @Box Knows knows that I don't normally talk like that on public forums and that i am usually way more professional in these settings. I appreciate that he called me out and thanked him. I proceeded to be a bit more professional and apologetic about the things that I am sorry that didn't get handled the way we would have liked to. So do you want me to be dialed back and professional or not?

    Let me paste a small part of something I wrote on our discord in regards to the trello.

    "We stopped writing down everything we thought after round 1 so that we could get the results faster to you all. There people complaining on the forum that we shouldnt have given feedback at all and people complaing we didnt give enough. Cant please everyone.

    I am sorry that some people might feel we didnt go in depth enough on paper, but we did discuss every map with each other. So because of this I am extending a Invitation to anyone that wants to go over why I made the choices I made. Please DM me and we will set up a time frame to go in forge and go over anything and everything."

    I agree with chuck that giving feedback for every map was a bit ambitious. I left something generic on trello for every map(more then anything ever from previous contest)Also max left his, he was waiting for the contest to be over. He left a link to it on one of the newer 4's post. But I will not be going back to that trello to update. But am more then happy to give full detail in voice chat and in forge with anyone. My reasoning for this is. As you pointed out. My patience for typing a lot isn't good because I don't ever spell check or take the time to proof read.
    Its just much faster to get up with people that want that info and do something more personal and meaningful IMO. Plus I think we can have honest and open discussion and go into more detail then is even possible with text.

    Thats why I said I can't speak for Max but its clear in the voice chats me and Foge where trying our butts off. I am a tryhard. Anyone whos played with me knows.

    This last half has me a little confused. Our condition is why the whole contest didn't go to plan. But please bring to attention vary specific things you have problems with. You say it was run horribly (we all agree no argument there) but haven't mentioned something specific besides feedback which I hopefully explained better this time on why things with trello didn't go as we planned. You seem vary adamant that length wasn't a problem with you. But it was the MAIN problem with everyone else. So I felt the need to address it. These post are read by a lot of people and I was going to address as many things as I could in those post because of that fact.

    So what parts about future contest would you like to discuss?
     
  5. Box Knows

    Box Knows Spartan I

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    My final thoughts on this. First I would like to say thanks to @Max Extra for providing thorough feedback on which I believe to be all of the maps. Combined with @Sethiroth feedback it makes me feel a little better knowing @Sethiroth wasn't the only one who seemed to be giving feedback (although I can't recall if he stated that his feedback spoke for most of the judges). Regardless, I personally believe that if feedback is going to be given during a contest, that every judge should have their own little write up. This allows you to see who may have liked what more than other judges and if they encountered a potential different experience. Random example being: Judges 1-3 stated map was too flat and boring, while judge 4 states that the same map offers unique sight lines and enforces excellent teamwork to promote coordinated pushes. Totally random scenario but stuff like this is good to know for a designer. Hearing what each judge has to say for themselves is important as it shows diversity and potential different opinions/experiences. On top of that it shows some of that fire/passion @Buddy Jumps was talking about, mainly involvement and interaction. Using that scenario above, as a designer you now have way more potential feedback to look at when trying to iterate off that design, or even moving forward for future maps. Lastly it shows outlook. Through out feedback you might be able to see the footprint of the mind of a judge and their tastes. While it is hard to measure outlook, it is good to have judges with different tastes in design to create great discussion and resolves potential tunnel vision when judging a map. Another random example: Judges 1-4 play imminent and dislike the verticality and abstract movement patterns because they are used to generic arena maps. Well a potential great map is thrown out the window because of subjectivity. Overall, if claiming to be giving feedback during a contest I personally believe every judge should speak for themselves to gather the most accurate data as a DESIGNER.

    One thing that upset me and I am not sure if in the announcement thread this was discussed, is that lack of weapon pads hurts maps? I don't see how having to track weapon timers is a bad thing. It shows you are more aware than your opponent and that you actually have to know their spawn location. Nobody has ever gone into previous halo maps and found every weapon the first game or two. I don't want to get into this too much, but this was pretty upsetting. Id rather not have 343 hold my hand for me in game. I mean whats next a timer over your opponents head showing how long until they regain their shields?

    I haven't seen anyone go over this after I mentioned it, and I am extremely aware how hard it is to get lobbies in this game, but the final judging lobbies were sloppy. Players didn't know where weapons were apparently at one point, or were trying to get out of maps when they already knew it was exploitable. In this stage the players should know the maps inside and out and should have no randoms or players new to the map.

    Lastly, I was never trying to come at anyones credibility as a judge. I will not publicly disclose what I thought of each judge on a subjective level which is why I stated objective facts in my other post. @Foge was the only judge with maps to back up his understanding for 4v4. Whether or not other judges have a better grasp on level design overall is not the point. Its a way for players who may not know the judges on a personal level to see their work and act as credibility. Which is why I think for any future contest in the future each judge should have a well received map for that specific player count to act as credibility. Also, on top of the map requirement, electing judges is something that may be best going forward.

    One more thing I forgot to add was even bi weekly updates would have been much appreciated. There were times where we were updated, but not enough on a frequent basis. Im aware of the situation you guys had, but there were other judges who could have stepped up in the meantime.

    Like Ive said, I truly just want the best for future contests and these are my thoughts
     
  6. Sethiroth

    Sethiroth Sensei
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    Totally agree on a lot of that Box. Trust me when I say we all didnt see eye to eye on everything. A good example you brought up was weapon pads. I personally didn't care but max really cared alot about it. We all complimented each other IMO. We all came to this will different values. Another great example is how breakable some maps where. I only mentioned in on the super obvious and easy ones. Where max mentioned every single one and wanted it to be KNOWN no matter how complex or simple it was. To me overall gameplay was a big thing that I pushed and talked about with the team. I know foge wrote some things down also. I am sure he will post some stuff soon. I will remind him.

    Technically speaking I did make some 4v4 maps in Halo 5 lol and they both where In MM also granted they where breakout, this game I went hard into 2v2 but all my maps from previous halos where exclusively 4v4 and where always vary well received.

    We played with total randoms in that final stream. We mentioned we would be streaming it and gave a week notice for anyone to play. No one bothered so we had to the best with what we had options to. I even invited you to play.

    I agree we could have provided more updates. While some of us didnt have internet. Someone did. I am sorry and I will make that a point for us to cover better in the future.

    Thanks for the constructive thoughts and feedback. I will sure mention some of this next time we have a contest that isnt just Aesthetic like the current.

    @Box Knows
     
    #6 Sethiroth, Feb 26, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  7. Max Extra

    Max Extra Forged Friday Founder
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    That is a lot of text. whew.

    So, few things I guess. First, the thread was locked after the winners were announced in an attempt to shift traffic there not discourage feedback. I am a huge fan of feedback and love to get the stuff. Just a bit disappointed that this thread popped up before I could get my contest feedback thread up. I'm still going to post it, but the idea was to address this contest's many short comings and ideas for how people would like them carried out in the future. Reasons for it not being up is that I am trying to space out these ideally larger threads to give each one the attention they deserve.

    I thought for sure that I made note that I would post my feed back after the contest was over, but just went back and read my own wall of text for the contest and realized that I didn't say it there :(. It was my intention to release at the end, it was also my intention that the end be much closer to the start date than it was.

    To level with you all, I am not happy with how long this contest ran nor how it ran. I wish I could have given more updates and tried my best to update as I could, but, whether you like it or not, I was without internet for about 2 months, with out power for 2 weeks and without heat for a week here in the northwest during probably one of the colder winters in the upper room of some persons house that they clearly do not maintain. hindsight says let someone else do it, but that's hindsight. I tried to push the contest forward but circumstances held me back and NO ONE will be angrier at that than me. Since it was hard enough to get lobbies together, the judges wanted to move at the same pace and not leave anyone behind.

    I understand you don't like the way I handled running through the maps at the end, tough. Simply put we could not get nearly enough play sessions in with the current population of halo 5, the current activeness of Forgehub, or even the people who submitted their own maps to the contest, so we lacked an understanding of the exact practicality of each exploit and escape during game play, and I chose to look into them during an active player session to see where they landed. This stream was not a show case, but a final judging and I was gathering criteria I wanted to have in order to make a decision. Weapon pads, are something else and clearly 2 of 3 judges didn't care if they were present or not so do not think this severely impacted your chances of winning.

    I was very passionate about having the contest and trying to see it through, because I saw that it had been requested for the longest time but never happened and honestly with halo 5 where it is I was afraid we never get to it, so I wanted to make it happen. As for the judges, This is what I could get, and we saw that that didn't even work out. So whoever it was that said there was no flame or passion in this contest should reconsider that because I tried to push this thing on and get it complete to the fullest extent that I could imagine at the time. Now that its over I am still not done with it because clearly its a failure and I wish to improve on this going forward.

    I know this didn't cover everything, but I'm not going to put much more in the post.
     
  8. Buddy Jumps

    Buddy Jumps Jumpmaster

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    Thanks for your reply, @Sethiroth , good post. About your question at the end, I think, @Box Knows pretty much summed up how I am feeling about the other points, so take that as one part of the answer.

    Other than that, I would find it to be a good idea, if there was money involved for the judges to further increase their effort. This would of course need a bit more organization and maybe an overseer to control deadlines and quality of feedback, which have to be met by each member of the panel.
    See this as completely unrelated to this contest, this is simply an idea. For example, if there were five rounds of judging each having a deadline, every judge would get 10 bucks for each rounds he's done a punctual and solid job on. This way, not only the community benefits from high-effort work of the panel, but the judges themselves get rewarded. I believe, such a system in place would be a more controlled, fair and professional environment.

    Another idea @Box Knows and @purely fat discussed would be about having a "judge contest" prior to the actual contest, where judges would be selected. I don't remember exactly how that would go, so maybe one of the two could elaborate on that.

    I think, we all want contests in the future to be on a different level, especially when Halo 6 comes out... This is why I and others replied to the contest with dead honest feedback.

    Thank for finally replying and showing backbone. I'm happy this overall discussion turned out like this. I made this post, since I felt like the discussion was not over, plus I could not reply to Seth's post publicly, so a quick message why you did it would have had a more positive effect.



    At least for me, it's good now. We confronted the problem openly, argued over it enough for people to make up their own opinions and now basically are over it. Focusing on the future.
     
  9. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    Disclaimer: Judges these are my general thoughts about contests. Nothing is directly related to you but based upon what I have seen over the years at forgehub.

    It wouldn't be contest to select judges necessarily but a transparent selection process either done by a community democratic vote or an application/vetting process that is transparent about its' choices.

    But I think that the judges definitely need some incentive to judge the contest, especially when you are handing out cash prizes to the winners. Giving the judges incentive will help with the feedback loop.

    I also would like to see the contests that are gameplay driven to allow changes to be made in between rounds. This will make the less popular and beginning designers more interested in submitting their stuff because even if they get eliminated they get feedback to improve the map and won't feel as hopeless and if they make a decent map that can make it to the second round they can fix issues and possibly get farther than they would have this will give less polished but potentially better playing maps a chance against maps that are favored largely based on polish alone. This doesn't mean a map can't be eliminated for being sloppy but **** like the map being escapable and other polish things that are fixable in a short amount of time can be addressed. Because the goal of a contest should be to get as many good maps as possible and promote growth in community members as designers.

    I say this because there have been many members who have joined this community and end up leaving because they don't get any feedback ever whether it is a contest or just general discussion.
     
  10. Sethiroth

    Sethiroth Sensei
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    This is a long read but I think a healthy one. So get some popcorn.

    I like a lot of the ideas here, I really do but there is one small problem. MONEY. Forgehub has no income what so ever. Its always been that way. No adds, no monetization, nothing. Maybe in the future that changes. All this money comes straight from staff pockets and those pockets are not as infinite as you think.

    I agree that money is a good incentive most of the time and would be awesome for sure to help increase work FLOW, 100% agree. This contest is a example that money would have done VERY little in "speeding" up the process. It would have done the opposite because we decide to move through the rounds faster by not updating our feedback post each round. We would still be judging more than likely because the extra time it takes to write ever thing down each round. I personally was wanting to take more time even despite the extra time it would added. But ALOT of people where constantly asking why isn't it done and where is it at. We in the end as a group decided to cut a few quality of life things we said we would do. WE STILL DISCUSSED ALL MAPS each round and voted with that information. In hindsight we could have just made a really detailed update post about the delay and tell them we are working on it. But who knows how much extra time that could have added. I know that all 3 of us judges REALLY WANTED TO DO THIS contest and none of use are happy about how it went in terms of delays and not fully doing every little thing we said we would do.

    Because of the Money situation and that this site is completely run on volunteers. I personally don't see judges not being staff.Maybe that changes now to some degree. Thanks so much for all your feedback on this topic. I know this will be discussed and overall better practices will get implemented for future contest. We really have a desire to make things better and constantly improve.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Disclaimer: The statements below is of my own opinion and isn't a reflection of the site or staff. All statements below our my thoughts and opinion on how contest run and how future contest could be run.

    After being both winner and 2nd in a contest and also being a judge of a contest, Its given me some new interesting insight about contest and now my thoughts tend to line up with @a Chunk . To me the whole adding feedback seemed like a great idea because in the past people have always asked for it, even I have asked for it before. Just so we could see what the judges where thinking and get there general thought process. I am now of the mindset that its just not practical. That part adds an insane amount of time to the process. Discussing map aspects with judges and stating what we thought is super easy and there where lots of back and forth discussion about maps that allows for vary accurate judging. But to put all those thoughts into a very organized written document and then update it after each round just adds SO MUCH TIME. This is one reason I recently been pushing the whole idea, if you really want to know the full detail just ask me in a DM. I have found that while yes people in general would like to see feedback. The ones that TRULY want it and will do something with it, will reach out for it.

    I am still of the mindset that its only fair to play all the maps and discuss it. but maybe deeper feedback can be held off to a top 16. But I am of the mindset now that its just not practical at all. I much prefer 1 on 1 sessions because that's where real feedback comes from maybe its something judges can elect into or not. Its Discussion and not me telling you YOUR WRONG that helps people improve. In terms of not playing the obvious bad maps. I can go either way. I have this view that these people took the time to make these maps so that they could be judged. Might as well play them.

    I personally don't care how judges are selected and I have always been of that thought personally, reason being is its not my site and its not my money and they our willing to give it to me. So I will take that money however I can HAHAHAHA. Yes in a ideal world it would be great if voting was done for judges that meet some sort of qualification set by the Game type/player count or what have you. Maybe there would be less pitch forks at the end HAHAHA. BUT to be honest I don't think it would. I still think these things would happen. The 1v1 Contest is a example. In the end Its a contest held by the site therefore we play by its RULES. I have always thought this.

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    Disclaimer: Below is a statement about us judges from MY perspective on qualification. I am making this statements because I felt PERSONALLY ATTACKED by 2 or 3 people and maybe rightfully so. Also maybe none of this was directed at all, But I am now willing to give my thoughts on this because I felt I was attacked. You can skip this part if you don't want to read me defending myself LOL.

    I personally stand by the judges we had for this recent contest, IMO it was a really good mix of people that had value on a lot of different aspects and was able to find good balance in our judging.
    Me and Foge have 4+ maps of OUR OWN in MM in many player count( yes I have had 4v4 H5 maps in MM LOL)and many co-forge/OTHER THINGS(cant speak on the other things right now). So we for sure know how this game plays and have a good understanding of Halo 5 and we both are pretty good players at the same time. Max is a QA nut job and can find things that no one else can find and helped come up with what might be the biggest social playlist in Halo 5 IMO, Extermination. Which is a social playlist that plays "regular halo" with different settings to give the illusion of being casual and is also 4v4.

    Could there have been more qualified people out there. Definitely could be, there is always someone better. Do I think the 3 people that judge this contest was incapable of doing so well. NOT EVEN CLOSE. From a OBJECTIVE standpoint (which is what was brought up at one point). The 3 people in this judging panel have put the most amount of map into MM and it was all "normal" gametypes across many player counts, Mainly 2v2 and 4v4. I don't think your could argue that OBJECTIVELY that we didn't have some sort of qualification IMO because you have to use a metric to be objective and getting Maps into MM and Winning contest is a good metric IMO. Subjectively who knows and I don't even want to get into that. AHAHahaha

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    Again thanks for all the feedback and discussion. Even though this conversation started on a rough note, it is becoming a nice peaceful discussion. I am will to keep this dialogue going as long as we remain calm and constructive. Thanks again.
     
    #10 Sethiroth, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  11. Max Extra

    Max Extra Forged Friday Founder
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    Just an update on the contest feedback and idea thread, I plan to start an official one tomorrow. So put the ideas here or there IDC. I'll be taking note of them in either place.
     
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  12. purely fat

    purely fat The Fattest Forger
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    Disclaimer: Excuse my midwestern edgy vocabulary and lack of linguistic skills.

    So if the issue is money lower the ****ing cash prize you dorks so you can give the judges money. I don't think anyone would care if it lead to better contests. Also, that insane amount of time you are talking about will be forgiven if there is a stream of info coming out and obviously you have to start the thorough feedback at a later round. Early round exit maps can easily be summed up in one sentence anyways. You can help speed this sort of stuff up as well via templates and developing a system/process to improve the speed of these things. Simply having someone act as a secretary/curator for the judges would improve the process.

    No **** it wouldn't have helped this contest. You want to know what would have helped this contests speed, replacing the judges who had real life issues or had to drop out at least temporarily or those involved to have enough foresight to have contingencies for issues like this.

    If anything the staff needs to get better at problem solving or have someone on staff who is because the sites handling of issues in my opinion is often poor which only serves to alienate community members.


    If judges don't get incentive I think it would be better to not have cash prizes at all. Then people won't be crying for professionalism from the judges because there is nothing of value on the line.

    Also, using maps in matchmaking as reasoning for qualification typically doesn't sit well with any forger considering the amount of nepotism this community has had over the years, even if your map wasn't apart of this nepotism.

    The way I see it at this moment you have two solutions.

    The easy one: eliminate the cash prize thus eliminating people's issues with the lack of professionalism.

    The tougher one: Lower the cash prize enough to pay the judges to create a sense of duty. Create a contest judging structure that insures efficiency while meeting the wants of community members.

    There will always be negativity with any contest result but the goal should be to eliminate any possible issues the judges can be held accountable for.
     
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  13. WARHOLIC

    WARHOLIC Cartographer
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    This is gold, so glad I took the time to read through the entire thread. In my previous contest judging experience, I found that a simple idea executed well is quite typical and safe. However, when I see a great idea executed improperly, it breaks my heart to knock them off the list. I'm a huge fan of 'potential' and would love to have contests in the future that allow 'gameplay' based changes to maps based on judging feedback. It would be very difficult to judge but I'm really interested in how it would work and want to give it a chance in the future.
     
  14. Max Extra

    Max Extra Forged Friday Founder
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    @Buddy Jumps, I see you renamed the thread. I just wanted to point out that I have made the feedback and suggestion thread found here. Just wanted to let you know its up and where its located.

    You all can keep discussing this here if you want, but it if we could move it there to get it started would be fantastic.
     
  15. WARHOLIC

    WARHOLIC Cartographer
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    That was actually my doing. I wanted to keep discussions going because I like feedback and asked Buddy if I could change the name of his thread to something more permanent. Creating a new thread works as well. I'm glad I read through this thread and thank everyone for the comments. I'm sorry I wasn't more involved at the time to help out with any of this.
     
    GrayishPoppy210 likes this.
  16. Dunco

    Dunco Troll Whisperer
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