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Feb 1, 2008
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Oct 23, 1991 (Age: 31)
North East uk

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Forerunner, 31, from North East uk

Senior Member
Matty was last seen:
Sep 1, 2013
    1. Pegasi
      Well I think the timescale and course of such a progression (and I believe it to be exactly that, a progression, just as you're saying) is really key to what I'm saying. It wasn't even your 10 years comment, but the one about my life time. I'm aware that makes me sound even more pessimistic, but if we're talking about actual separation of church and state then I still think it's far from certain, and I'd probably err towards unlikely, to see it fully realised by that stage.

      America is a pretty difficult example, and in a way proves my point because, far from actually being able to change the system, it required starting a whole new ****ing country to just escape it.
    2. Pegasi
      But I didn't ask for information, I asked for even the slightest eek of actual progress on the part of the secularists in anything close to recent times, which you're still dodging on providing.

      I don't equate a strong focus on anthropology, when thinking about these things will actually progress, to apologetics. You think I'm defending it in the long term? I'm genuinely a little disappointed that you're falling in to the "you don't agree with how I think we should go about this therefore you don't think it should happen at all" trap, you're honestly gonna spew that part of the problem bullshit? Ignoring the anthropological and historical understanding of how changes actually come about in this sense, whilst fighting the moral tirade, is not only going to hurt the cause in the end, but is directly hypocritical since it touts science as an ideal whilst absolutely ignoring a highly relevant discipline of it in the current discussion.
    3. Pegasi
      I think I'm missing your point. I don't see how that Guardian link proves anything to the contrary of what I was saying, and I'm well aware of the Dawkins Foundation. My point wasn't "show me that there are a reasonable number of people who care," it was "what has actually happened as a result of this?" If you actually expect significant and abrupt change you really need some observable evidence in terms of progressive indicators. Show me what these letters and foundations have achieved towards separating church and state in a practical sense, or even significant moves that have been made towards such an achievement.
    4. Pegasi
      I've said it to other people: treat us like the animals that evolution proves we are, and observe the stability and changes of our society with the same mind as one would approach the study of a species other than ourselves. Obviously we are a wholly different case, but that requires only that we extend and enhance our models, not that we abandon the ethos of study that appreciates, even predicates itself upon things like habits, traits, and ultimately an appreciation of fallibility.
    5. Pegasi
      But coming from where? What's actually come of this increase? At least in terms of the public domain, relatively unimportant news tidbits pop up now and again, but anything in significant terms ie. how the state and CofE interact at a high up level?
    6. Pegasi
      God save us from warriors of principle. It takes some serious **** for a country just "drop" a monarchy, and you want prayers at council meetings or some CofE schools to bring that about? Even aside from disagreeing, good luck.

      Honestly I just can't get onboard with Dawkins and the like for considerations of timescale. It's all very well to fight the corner of reasoned thought, but in terms of acting on it or even pushing for action on it, you gotta look at how such changes actually pan out for our society.
    7. Pegasi
      I disagree. I feel that schooling falls more within the bounds of parental decision than governmental. How they are treated as schools in terms of funding, legislation etc., ie. stuff from a government end, is a fair discussion, but I don't like the idea of forbidding faith schools at all.

      I was actually discussing separation of church and state in absolute terms with my dad the other day, cause of this whole Bideford thing, and it really is a big deal in terms of changes. I'm not saying that heads off it being a good thing or not, but that **** is entrenched in highly bureaucratic terms even aside from day to day moral ones like this.
    8. Pegasi
      Honestly I think that's where it gets complicated. It's very awkward when you venture in to territory of telling parents how to raise their children. An informed decision, or even a proper decision at all, is simply impossible at that age. Isolating them from things that the rest of the family are engaging in is unhealthy tbh, so what option does that leave?

      I guess it's easy to say from the perspective of someone who's parents showed him how they thought about this as I grew up but, as soon as I had the mind to question that, were OK with it, but still.
    9. Pegasi
      I went to a CofE primary school. It was actually a really good school, great teachers and very happy memories, the religious aspect didn't figure outside of the weekly service bit (basically an assembly and church mushed in to one, but in the school hall), and since I'd been brought up going to church this didn't seem odd to me at all. Basically the attitude was just like that of my parents: we're going to show you what we think but if you disagree then fair one, and I appreciated that even at the time. That said, I know this wasn't the case in many other similar schools, so I do count myself lucky.
    10. Pegasi
      I need to ****in go to China man, **** needs to be seen.
    11. Pegasi
      A valid point, though one which (unless I can be assed to start amassing examples in a comprehensive sense) invites even more **** about showing basis for assertions. Depends how he answers I guess.
    12. ChronoTempest
      So, did you have anything else you wanted to address? You stopped responding, so I assume we reached some level of understanding on the previous subject.
    13. Pegasi
      Sorry dude, just about to head out.
    14. Pegasi
    15. Pegasi
      I have no desire to ride brother, lrn2comma!
    16. Pegasi
      You are such a baller.
    17. Ociee
      Yes I see, I suppose I didn't exactly use the right word, but I appreciate that you sort of had an idea of what I meant and the kindness to point out that I had used it wrong.
    18. Miraj
      WordPress, Joomla, Drupal, and probably all CMS softwares support that. It's just how you code it.

      Here is an example of a Wordpress Theme that used a similar effect:
      Gallery Fullwidth « London Creative +

      Here is another that does it differently:
      Imaginem Themes | Preview: Edge

      And another way:
      GoodLayers | Theme: Modernize

      And the list goes on and on. It's basically up to you how you want to do it, it's just the matter of coding it.
    19. Miraj
      Yeah, it's pretty simple. That navigation would be easy to make.
    20. QKT
      yeah, its pretty smart, but its difficult to contextualise
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    Oct 23, 1991 (Age: 31)
    North East uk