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Taking Advantage of Symmetry Options

Discussion in 'Forge Discussion' started by TrueDarkFusion, Dec 1, 2007.

  1. TrueDarkFusion

    TrueDarkFusion Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Forging 101: Taking Advantage of Symmetry Options

    Most people don't know what the symmetry option does, however it's very useful when your trying to set up a map to be played on any mode. You may notice that as soon as you set your map up for One Flag CTF, it becomes a terrible Multi Flag map. Using the symmetry option, you can fix these problems. If the option is set to asymmetric for an extra turret or crate you placed in a base, then that object will only spawn when your playing a game that is considered symmetric?

    One Flag CTF is an example of an asymmetric game, because it is not balanced. A map designed for One Flag CTF will generally have extra defenses in the defending teams base, if these defenses are asymmetric? they wont exist in your Multi Flag game. By default all objects will spawn in all games because they are set to both. To find out for sure which maps are symmetric and which are asymmetric you just have to experiment to see which fits your mode. However, it is known that Team Slayer and Multi Flag are considered symmetrical and One Flag is considered asymmetric.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2008
  2. Lance001

    Lance001 Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    This is definitely underused. A single map, when worked on, can suddenly become many different maps in different modes. I supposed the only danger is running out of cash or items.
     
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  3. Fbu

    Fbu Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Unfortunately not many people create multi-use maps. They only make it for one game type only, so not many people take advantage of this feature.

    I think AZN is making a multi-use map thou, looking forward to it.
     
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  4. SniperTofu

    SniperTofu New Member

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    Its useful for some maps, but only ones without special stuff.
     
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  5. Lance001

    Lance001 Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    I'd have to disagree, Sniper. Using huge crates, for instance, you can block off whole areas on certain gametypes. If you want to make things more hectic on a Zombies mode, you can just close off that area of the map. But if you want that place open in CTF mode, you just set the crates to "symmetry" only. =D
     
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  6. AZN FTW

    AZN FTW Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    This, put together with effective spawn placement is EXTREMELY difficult and takes time to plan out. Fbu... you are correct on the multi-use maps. Cottage and myself have put them together. There are 3 maps and 6 gametypes... all of which are compatible with each other. And the future ACMPs will feature more maps and gametypes that are compatible with these maps and gametypes.

    Anyways back to symmetry... think about it this way. You want to incorporate a multi-team (up to 4 teams), defense teams, and offense teams. but you only have 20 starting points. You need to use 16 spawn points to cover 8 vs 8, 4 vs 4 vs 4 vs 4, etc. However the ones you placed are all equal distance from your focus point (say a tower). When you play defense vs offense you want defense to spawn closer. But you don't have the 8 spawn points to set for assymetrical defense.. you only have 4. Not to mention that you also have to priority spawn any points closest to the tower.. so they don't just appear at the defense points that were made for multi-team that are very far away and the takes the same amount of time as it takes for attackers to get there.

    For the AZN Cottages that enable 4 teams I ended up with these combinations:

    - 4 starting points Assymetrical Defense near the tower with a respawn area for priority
    - 4 starting points Both(symmetrical and assymetrical) Defenders equal from the tower (with custom powerups only on assymetrical so any defense over 4 can speed toward the tower)
    - 4 starting points Symmetrical Neutral equal from the tower
    - 4 more starting points Symmetrical Neutral equal from the tower
    - 4 starting points Both Attackers equal from the tower

    Now as you can see what I do is very advanced and not your average forging stuff. I work hard to give people good maps. However I don't get much credit for it, cuz people don't actually see the spawn points and all of the work and thought it takes to make multiple gametypes work.

    How many Forgers do you know that can make a map work for Multi-Flag, Single Flag, Territories, One-side Territories, KOTH, Infection, and soon to come, VIP, Juggernaut, Oddball, assault, etc? For most of you... just me. For the rest, a handful at most.
     
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  7. Gravedigger5454

    Gravedigger5454 Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    I doesn't take to much time to setup all your maps for every mode, I don't why it's not common practice, what if someone doesn't download the gametype? You will soon get a message about how your map sucks, if it works for any mode, you won't, instead they'll come back and notice the gametype. If you follow this guide, it can help you to setup your maps to also support One Flag and Multi Flag at the same time, and then eventually every other mode, it does take a little extra time, but it's usually worth it.
     
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  8. Rezzik26

    Rezzik26 Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Bravo for introducing this topic, to the community. not many know of it at all. I myself am a asymetric kind of guy, working with infection maps and all, thanks alot for this post, this should help others on thier quest for the perfect map.
     
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  9. SuperMarioLuigi

    SuperMarioLuigi Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Cool thanks.
     
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  10. rusty eagle

    rusty eagle Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    My upcoming map will be a perfect example of this.
     
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  11. AZN FTW

    AZN FTW Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    I agree... rusty, I am really glad you did what you did with the map. I am very impressed. Based on what gametype you are playing the map becomes COMPLETELY different. Good Luck in your future endeavors rusty.
     
    #11
  12. Nutduster

    Nutduster TCOJ Senior Member

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    This is a good tip that I knew about but have yet to use. I think one problem is that most people design maps with a specific idea but no general flexibility. If you play Halo's default maps most of them work well for a lot of different gametypes, and with just a few exceptions they don't have that many changes between symmetric and asymmetric games, because they don't really need them. But if this is used wisely you could have a very flexible map.
     
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  13. a dumb cat

    a dumb cat Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    I have made a map that is compatible with all gametypes as well, and let me tell you, it is time-consuming! Once I put it in my file share (it is 99.99% complete, just need to play-test it a tiny bit more), you will not see the thought that went into the spawn locations, spawn areas, objective placements, etc. But hopefully you will benefit from the fun map-variant known as "Crossroads." Crossroads is not a remake, but think of it as a combination Foundation's openness with Midship's size. Coming soon. I am also working on another map that will utilize "most" gametypes, code-named "T-Bone Steak" at the moment. I say "most" because I don't know how well a Juggernaut or Infection game would work on Steak. You can count on all of the other popular gametypes though.

    AZN, I feel you. It is a pain going through all the gametypes, but it is worth it in the end.

    Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to go on a tangent there!

    --dumb cat
     
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  14. kyyrbes

    kyyrbes Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    i would like to point out that just because great cities and empires are built in a day (ITS TRUE!) doesnt mean great forge maps are
     
    #14
  15. AZN FTW

    AZN FTW Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Agreed... the more time you spend on your map the better it can get...
     
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  16. Lemonyguy47

    Lemonyguy47 Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    are neutral gametypes considered asymmetrical?
     
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  17. AZN FTW

    AZN FTW Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Neutral is considered Symmetrical. On neutral bomb, both teams are on equal footing and have equal objectives.
     
    #17
  18. Lemonyguy47

    Lemonyguy47 Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    well im making a 4v4v4v4 map and i want it to be compatible with team slayer and neutral territories and have them both setup differently... but the problem is both gametypes are symmetrical... can anyone help?
     
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  19. tehUBERn00blet

    tehUBERn00blet Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    I usually figure out those obscure options on my own but I never looked at it the way you explained it, that will be really useful to make some smoother CTF gameplay.
     
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  20. !nikheizen

    !nikheizen Halo 3 Era Senior Member

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    Territories is Two team max, I think, which is really stupid and in the famous words of Master Chief: "Bungie r retard!"
    Yes chiefy, retard they r, retard they r.

    But if you could have multi team territories, if you wanted objectives and spawns to have different placement, that's possible, but for different object placement, you're going to need more than one map variant.
     
    #20

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