Forging Suggestions (Guide)

[DomiBoy_says_Oi]

Okey dokey, I thought I'd make a topic after being so disliked upon for my critiquing style (another website), which is understandable even from my point of view. This is a look into my head to see what I see as a quality, interesting map. The following three things are going to be talked upon in depth about in my opinion, meaning these are things that I think to myself before both planning and forging a map. Please don't look at me as an ignorant punk who only appreciates the best things, but as someone willing to help by giving an honest opinion.

Please note that I do not have any biased opinions about any maps listed below nor their creators, they are merely used for example purposes.

Now, on to the guide.

Interlocking
Interlocking, the heart and soul of most maps nowadays. "You don't interlock, you don't try hard enough" is most people's opinion on the subject. There are times where interlocking objects is required, yes, but there is such a thing where interlocking becomes unnecessary. Interlocking should be used to fill in those tiny gaps in between boxes to make a flat surface, to make that one piece just right with the others, to make a perfect level of cover.

Good example of Interlocking:


The Boxes are interlocked just slightly enough to create a smooth floor, the bridge is at a perfect level with the boxes it's interlocked into, and the creator didn't go crazy and interlock those A and B signs at the top.

Bad example of Interlocking:


Bad use of boxes, the map could have saved supplies if he had interlocked his floor like the last map. The fence wall bridge peeking out at the corner of the picture could have been interlocked down to make a smooth floor, but he chose to focus more on the double boxes looking nice than the game play of the map itself. No one enjoys that silly bump, now do they?

Unnecessary Interlocking:


I'm referring to the giant double box structures hovering atop the map, these do not affect game play as they are practically above the height limit. They are there purely for aesthetic value, which at most times is not a bad thing, but many other points on the map could have been affected for the better if these double boxes were used for cover structures, and such. The platform the picture is centered around, though, makes good use of the skill to make it's own geometry.


Merging immovable objects with Geometry
This technique is much more difficult than interlocking, but when used (correctly) can really make your map's game play skyrocket. But, alike Interlocking, there become times that merging with geometry becomes laughable when seeing some of the pointless ways it's used.

Good example of Geometry Merging:


The map creator used merging to a very fine degree, making things merged only so that they would be level with other objects, a very nice job.

Bad example of Geometry Merging:


There is no point to these double boxes being merged into the ground other than to prove that the creator could do it, really, and they hurt the map's overall game play.

Unnecessary Geometry Merging:


Focus on the merged double box near the left of the screen shot, is there any reason at all that must be merged that low? Take that out and you could still have a merged fence wall, that is most certainly an unnecessary merge.

Aesthetics
Breaking away from my last two guides, this one is purely for what I believe makes your map truly original. Too many maps these days abuse the "Tele-node lights" first implemented in Furious D 18's "Exacted" (see below), or focus their maps on a single aesthetic design, such as Draw the Line's "End of the Line (see below), which isn't necessarily a "bad" thing when done, but it isn't the original flair that these maps brought to the community! What makes a map spectacular most of the time is one one centered around interesting geometry with fantastic game play included!

Furious D 18's "Exacted; Flower Node"


Draw the Line's "End of the Line"


One map that comes to mind that involves both interesting geometry and fantastic game play is IVLatty's "Reflex" (see below). It involves a tunnel system that isn't the only focal point on the map, as there are many more interesting additions besides this, such as an aesthetic "criss-cross" roof, a rounded wall, a merged dumpster cover (an unnecessary merge, yet still aesthetic), and many other tiny things that could be added to one's map to make it original. Another fantastic example of this would be Tom D Harding's "Paragon" (see below), which centers around very competitive one sided objective games.

IVLatty's "Reflex"


Tom D Harding's "Paragon"


In closing, instead of adding tele nodes and aesthetic merges to an ordinary map you've made, create a map centered around many interesting things, things other people haven't created themselves! I can't give you any ideas for some, as these maps must be your own, but I hope this helps affect the way you plan your map, next time. This is still entirely my opinion, of course, but this is, again, what I see as a great map. If you can't get the point I'm trying to get across, here are the things I was trying to get through to you all by making this guide;

- Do not sacrifice game play to make an aesthetic detail.
- Use supplies wisely and take the time to make every area of your map as clean as another.
- Try to only geomerge or interlock when completely necessary, and don't abuse to two.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[xSharpshooter94]

well my friend great reveiw you may be criticized so be prepared but i think it was a good reveiw of your beleifs

[Murdock Sampson]

Domi I agree with everything you said here. I would never get mad at you for rating tough, as long as it wasn't flaming. When I post a map, I'm not seeking approval as a main objective. I'm seeking constructive criticism of how many things I can improve in my next map. It's nice to have people say how much they love the map, but the commments that acually help the most are the ones that say things about how to improve the map in specific and general ways.

And also many great maps I see and people say "could use more interlocking/geomerging because the players like to see it." But really to me the functionality of the map outweighs the map in my judgement. I think a lot of how the maps are judged are unneccessary aesthetics and not how well the gameplays. And people will overlook problems (like the fence bridge from your example) because something else looks attractive.

Thank you for saying everything I've been thinking but didn't have the courage, attention span, or words to say. I have a new found respect and love for you.

[chrstphrbrnnn]

You're entitled to your opinion, though some of your map choices for discussion there seem..hmm iuno. Basically your right on what you said, except truthfully..there really isn't any "unnecessary" interlocking. The example you gave there with the boxes on the ceiling are as you said ascetic, but if he didn't need them there they were put in the perfectly place. Maps need ascetics, even if they are competitive, otherwise they don't look or feel professional. I mean, yeah if someone did a crap load of boggled down interlocking in one spot that is unnecessary, but other than that..ascetics are full of win.

When it comes to the geo merging, yeah almost all of it is ugly, unnecessary and gameplay hindering..but occasionally it looks good. Anyway..all in all good stuff. But maybe you wanna change the title? I has kinda thought you were looking for suggestion because you were writing a guide. Anyway +rep.

[Jimbodawg]

I think this 'Guide' (more like brilliant opinions) may open peoples eyes to the possibilities of Forge.
Whenever I used to go into Forge, I would think,"Time to make a map."
Now, I think,"Time to put forth my creativity...into everything."

Whoever dislikes you on that other forum, which is related to Forge I am guessing, is truly lying.

Btw, I tried to +rep you, but it seems I've recently gave you +rep. :)

[Playerhata27]

I kind of believe most of the things you discussed were un-important ,or you just got a little to paranoid.

Like the unnecessary interlocking.I think that it makes the map actually better.I eman if it wasn't interlocked it would be a beam with tiny little gaps in between which wouldn't feel or look right.I mean as you said it actually doesn't affect game play so why bother.It didn;t waster our time it wasted the map creators time so thats his problem.

The bad merging isn't bad.Its actually quite alligned and if they were standing up or not there the map would not be the same.Yes he could of put somethign else there but I belive it makes the map feel more realistic.And maybe that could even be aesthetic-ish.

The unnecessarymerging makes the map feel much more better.Double boxes merged into the ground = fucking awsome.I mean it basically does just act as the floor which is actually a waste of time but it shows the creator put time into his work which subsequently got it featured.As I said before why even bother.

But with everythign else I do totally agree.Most amatuer map makers interlock the important things but not the ones that really matter.And really who the fuck likes stupid bumps in a map?

Please don't take what I said personally and this was actually a bit helpful to me =).

Good work dom.

[Squiiddish]

I have to agree with the majority of what was said, but not all of it. In most cases I agree: a lot of creators simply add interlocking, geo-glitching, etc to the maps basically to prove they can do it. However, this is not always the case. In your example for the unnecessary geomerging, perhaps the creator had a point to his/her merge. Maybe they wanted to make it so the boxes could be seen over. Maybe they wanted your head to be slightly exposed as you ran along the wall. Maybe they just didn't want you to feel safe using that area as cover, to keep the action moving around.

The point I'm trying to make is, I think it's at least fairly uncommon for people to put things in their map that is in their mind unnecessary. Especially without budget glitching, every dollar counts. If the creator spent that extra $4 to stick a double box in the ground, or the extra time to interlock a bunch of boxes floating in the air, there was probably a reason.

Except for all you aesthetic map making people. You basically just do everything to look cool XD

[evan12075]

whoa, glad to see this pinned. i saw this posted at lgnation first tho which usually doesnt happen. anyway, i'll say the same i said there. the guide is wonderful and i really love the aesthetics section you wrote. If people follow that guideline... I think we would see a lot more unique and original maps here at forge hub.

[Mallet]

I dislike your repeated bashing of Jedwali and I especially dislike you using a map by a less experienced forger in the second image as an example of "what not to do".

You describe how merging boxes in Jedwali is unnecessary. You describe how elaborate overhead interlocking in Jedwali is bad. You then present images of paragon and reflex which both have these same features, and tell us these are lovely aesthetic features. Contradicting yourself much.

I suggest you edit it and remove the negative examples. Tell us what we should do, not what we should not. I agree with your final conclusion, but much of the body of text I do not. Just like any technique in forge, interlocking and merging will sometimes be done badly and sometimes be done well. The techniques themselves aren't to blame, don't tell people not to use them.

[DomiBoy_says_Oi]

Originally Posted by Dom says Oi

Please note that I do not have any biased opinions about any maps listed below nor their creators, they are merely used for example purposes.

Originally Posted by Dom says Oi

This is still entirely my opinion, of course, but this is, again, what I see as a great map.

I gave a few examples from maps where that I saw could use improvement, I would've included pictures from any map that, again, I saw could have used (in my opinion) improvement. I'm not bashing anyone nor any map as some (not only you) have claimed, but anyone would indeed get angry from me using their maps in a negative fashion. I'm going to substitute the second picture of 'Jedwali' with another map seeing as how many think I'm bashing it, but I'm not removing what, again, in my opinion could be improvement in a map.

Oh, and just wanted to add this right here: The little overhead features on Jedwali, those aren't needed to help escape-proof the map on Paragon. On Reflex, meh, that is a bit contradicting I admit, but I doubt these bridges could have been placed somewhere else to improve game play, unlike the boxes on Jedwali.

Don't be hatin' on my tryin' to halp, Sir. :)