MLG Standards: Weapons/Powerups allowed and why.

[DeathstarsOG]

Originally Posted by HITtheLIGHTZ

Yeah Deathstars thanks for clearing up some of the misconceptions that go along with mlg maps. One thing to clear up a little, the AR technically was the halo 1 starting weapon but since you spawned with a Pistol secondary everyone with a brain playing mlg would immediately switch to it. And the main reason the sword was removed was because in halo 2 you could switch to it and use it immediately making it a close range power weapon, but in halo 3 with the delay the only real use for the sword is hiding around a corner with it already equipped.

I really like how you cleared up the whole red OS thing along with the weapons, what I heard KC (the mlg gametype designer for those who don't know) said that there is no real restriction on what can't be put on a map ***so long as it works so for the time being you essentially eliminated the items that will probably never work for competitive play.

A sticky on this would be nice.

The part in bold is SO true. The limitations that most of us see are not so much based on it being allowed but what works best for that map in that area. This doesn't mean that adding a turret is OK to an MLG map, however it does mean that you can use your best judgement on what guidlines can be bent. Not to shamelessly promote my map, but Unleashed has done many things that people would say are controversial: Two powerups(let alone on a small map), two gravity lifts(disliked cause they are not always a gaurenteed lift), two plasma rifles(never used in an actual Halo 3 MLG map) two snipers on a walled off Foundry map and seperate grab/cap points for CTF and yet it made top 6 for MLG v6 testing.
This shows you can get creative and try new things, however they MUST be for a reason and work to better the maps gameplay. Anything I said that is pretty much off limits, really is. There may be the smallest possibility that one may work in competetive play, but to be safe stay away from them.
Oh and sticky would be nice.

[Ender]

You forgot Sentinel Beam, Fuel Rod Cannon, and Beam Rifle.

Sentinel Beam
While mostly a joke weapon in H2 because of how slow its killing speed was, it got a well-needed revamp during the transition to Halo 3. It now kills faster than a 4-shot BR and has a super strong melee bonus damage. It is battery operated like other plasma weapons. It shoots an orange beam perfectly straight and fires constantly until you let go of the trigger or it overheats. When used up close, it is vicious as a single shot and a melee will kill on MLG settings. It is weak from far distances, however, as it does not have a scope and becomes impossible to keep on the opponent without an extremely low sensitivity. It is also countered by BR users who effectively peek shot, because it minimizes the time the beam can make contact while the BR user can still land all of their shots. This is a power weapon that accomplishes what the DAMP would, while allowing it to be used longer because it does not disappear once the user dies. I would recommend 3 minutes for respawn, and it should be placed in an exposed area like other power weapons.

idk anything about the Fuel Rod Cannon...

Beam Rifle
The Covenant version of the Human sniper is not very different. It does not have to be reloaded but overheats when fired too quickly. The major reason this is not used in MLG is because ammo cannot be collected with it. With the Human sniper, players can pick up spare ammo, but with the Beam Rifle, ammo is in the form of battery, which means you have to drop one Beam Rifle to pick up another. If a player wanted to steal another teams ammo, they would half to drop the ammo they had in exchange for a full Beam Rifle. I would recommend staying with the Human sniper all the time, but if you really want to use it, put it on a map that only has one sniper, which will greatly reduce the ammo situation.

[RightSideTheory]

Originally Posted by Ender

Sentinel Beam
While mostly a joke weapon in H2 because of how slow its killing speed was, it got a well-needed revamp during the transition to Halo 3. It now kills faster than a 4-shot BR and has a super strong melee bonus damage. It is battery operated like other plasma weapons. It shoots an orange beam perfectly straight and fires constantly until you let go of the trigger or it overheats. When used up close, it is vicious as a single shot and a melee will kill on MLG settings. It is weak from far distances, however, as it does not have a scope and becomes impossible to keep on the opponent without an extremely low sensitivity. It is also countered by BR users who effectively peek shot, because it minimizes the time the beam can make contact while the BR user can still land all of their shots. This is a power weapon that accomplishes what the DAMP would, while allowing it to be used longer because it does not disappear once the user dies. I would recommend 3 minutes for respawn, and it should be placed in an exposed area like other power weapons.

Honestly I've never really thought of the Sentinel beam as a power weapon. Does it really work that well in practice?

[DeathstarsOG]

Originally Posted by Ender

You forgot Sentinel Beam, Fuel Rod Cannon, and Beam Rifle.

Sentinel Beam
While mostly a joke weapon in H2 because of how slow its killing speed was, it got a well-needed revamp during the transition to Halo 3. It now kills faster than a 4-shot BR and has a super strong melee bonus damage. It is battery operated like other plasma weapons. It shoots an orange beam perfectly straight and fires constantly until you let go of the trigger or it overheats. When used up close, it is vicious as a single shot and a melee will kill on MLG settings. It is weak from far distances, however, as it does not have a scope and becomes impossible to keep on the opponent without an extremely low sensitivity. It is also countered by BR users who effectively peek shot, because it minimizes the time the beam can make contact while the BR user can still land all of their shots. This is a power weapon that accomplishes what the DAMP would, while allowing it to be used longer because it does not disappear once the user dies. I would recommend 3 minutes for respawn, and it should be placed in an exposed area like other power weapons.

idk anything about the Fuel Rod Cannon...

Beam Rifle
The Covenant version of the Human sniper is not very different. It does not have to be reloaded but overheats when fired too quickly. The major reason this is not used in MLG is because ammo cannot be collected with it. With the Human sniper, players can pick up spare ammo, but with the Beam Rifle, ammo is in the form of battery, which means you have to drop one Beam Rifle to pick up another. If a player wanted to steal another teams ammo, they would half to drop the ammo they had in exchange for a full Beam Rifle. I would recommend staying with the Human sniper all the time, but if you really want to use it, put it on a map that only has one sniper, which will greatly reduce the ammo situation.

The Beam rifle I didn't really feel the need to explain as the sniper rifle would always be preffered by the pro's. And the sentinal beam/fuel rod cannon were not included as Bungie won't even use them in matchmaking.
The weapon I feel needs to be talked about is the Spartan Laser(I totally forgot about it). Thanks for the writeup though, I will add the beam rifle to the post.

[Ladnil]

The Laser to me just seems to be a sniper that promotes camping, could you elaborate on why you think it should be considered?

From where I see it, the Laser serves the same long range and sometimes no-scope job that a Sniper does, but the charge-up aspect of it means that players using it will spend more time behind a wall than exposed to danger. The only time I see a laser making interesting gameplay is if it is a 1v1 BR vs Laser and the BR guy has to kill faster than the laser charges, but either teamshot or running away will usually negate that scenario.

Edit: Just wanted to say since they tossed the rep system here that I loved unleashed, I think it Lockdown and Regicide are the only maps that should be added.

[DeathstarsOG]

Originally Posted by Ladnil

The Laser to me just seems to be a sniper that promotes camping, could you elaborate on why you think it should be considered?

From where I see it, the Laser serves the same long range and sometimes no-scope job that a Sniper does, but the charge-up aspect of it means that players using it will spend more time behind a wall than exposed to danger. The only time I see a laser making interesting gameplay is if it is a 1v1 BR vs Laser and the BR guy has to kill faster than the laser charges, but either teamshot or running away will usually negate that scenario.

Edit: Just wanted to say since they tossed the rep system here that I loved unleashed, I think it Lockdown and Regicide are the only maps that should be added.

The laser doesn't promote camping at all. It has the same long and short range effectiveness as a sniper and therefore it is used similar to one. The problem is the gameplay can slow down a little bit because of the charge time. However, if the pace of your map is a little hectic maybe try swapping a snipe out for a laser and just test how it plays. I think it could be very possible to make play well, would just need some cautious testing.
I'm glad you liked Unleashed. It didn't seam to get noticed on ForgeHub very much even though it made MLG v6 testing. I still believe it will be Regicide/Lockdown that make it if any but it is really cool to get noticed for the hard work you do. Thanks.

[DimmestBread]

I don't think you are allowed to use the beam rifle because you can't pick up ammo for it, you have to pick up a new gun which can lead to more than 2 beam rifles around the map. I think I remember Killa KC saying that.

[Ender]

Originally Posted by DeathstarsOG

The Beam rifle I didn't really feel the need to explain as the sniper rifle would always be preffered by the pro's. And the sentinal beam/fuel rod cannon were not included as Bungie won't even use them in matchmaking.
The weapon I feel needs to be talked about is the Spartan Laser(I totally forgot about it). Thanks for the writeup though, I will add the beam rifle to the post.

What makes you think pros only prefer the human sniper? I remember when KC was testing Beam Rifles on Narrows for v3 (I think) and there were plenty of people who liked them because it was more headshot oriented to prevent overheating, whereas the human sniper only punishes body shots by costing more ammo.

Also, why do you say Bungie won't use the Sentinel Beam and Fuel Rod Cannon in MMing? Especially for MLG, I don't find that hard to imagine that they would put them in. Sentinel Beams were on Desolation in H2 so unless the H3 weapons are different somehow, I'm pretty sure they will add them if MLG includes them.

You should also add the sword btw. It's way more balanced than it was in H2, while still maintaining power weapon status.

[Transactionzero]

Originally Posted by Ender

What makes you think pros only prefer the human sniper? I remember when KC was testing Beam Rifles on Narrows for v3 (I think) and there were plenty of people who liked them because it was more headshot oriented to prevent overheating, whereas the human sniper only punishes body shots by costing more ammo.

Also, why do you say Bungie won't use the Sentinel Beam and Fuel Rod Cannon in MMing? Especially for MLG, I don't find that hard to imagine that they would put them in. Sentinel Beams were on Desolation in H2 so unless the H3 weapons are different somehow, I'm pretty sure they will add them if MLG includes them.

You should also add the sword btw. It's way more balanced than it was in H2, while still maintaining power weapon status.

The sword may have become more balanced than H2 sword. However, the sword is not a balanced melee weapon. This is why the shotgun was removed from MLG play and replaced with a mauler. I also want to add that bungie does not use the fuel rod and sentinel beam in MM, because of something with the possibility of video lag. If you want to inquire more about the reason I would check out a Bungie run group called Atlas.

[DeathstarsOG]

Originally Posted by Transactionzero

The sword may have become more balanced than H2 sword. However, the sword is not a balanced melee weapon. This is why the shotgun was removed from MLG play and replaced with a mauler. I also want to add that bungie does not use the fuel rod and sentinel beam in MM, because of something with the possibility of video lag. If you want to inquire more about the reason I would check out a Bungie run group called Atlas.

THIS.


The sword isn't as ridiculously strong as it was in Halo 2. However, it takes much longer to pull it out when swapping weapons therefore people didn't run around using it, they would camp around tight corners for easy kills. Same as the shotgun. This is NOT competetive. And you are also correct about the lag on the fuel rod gun, which IS the reason it is not allowed in MM. I actually like the sentinal beam, however Bungie does NOT use it in MM so it was not included in this writeup. Also, Halo2 is ALOT different than Halo3 so try not to compare them as much. There differences, whether big or small will affect gameplay and that is why there aren't some weapons in MLG now, then in previous versions of Halo(and even previous seasons of Halo3 MLG).

If you want real words from Killa KC, he says if the weapon works well on your map, use it. I wouldn't say that to the general masses because we would be playing infection in MLG soon enough. So basically this writeup is here to tell you what can be used easily without debate, and other items you should stay away from as they will more than likely deteriorate competetive play.

About the Beam rifle, re-read the words you used. I didn't say they "only prefer", I said they "prefer" the human sniper. Saying that they "only prefer" would mean not a single pro likes the beam rifle which can't be true. However saying that pro's "prefer" the human snipe mean a majority of them prefer to use it over the beam rifle. And on the same note, there preferences make no difference in what is in MLG play and what is not. This is decided by the gametype designer/MLG.

I realized i quoted you and not Ender, but this post is directed toward both of you.

Ender, I know why you are backing the Sentinal Beam, because you have one on your latest MLG map. I think it's a good idea to try new stuff for MLG trust me, but I personally know alot of people that won't even play your map till you take it off. Like I said, I like the Sentinal Beam as a weapon, but the fact that Bungie won't even use it in MM has got to tell you something.

To everyone else, please take this thread as a guide and use your best judgement on your next MLG map. The top MLG forgers know these guidlines already and some do still experiment with them. This is mainly for the newbies making there first or second MLG map to read and really think about.

/book