Microsoft's "talking parties"

Dow · 07-01-2009

Alright, so something has been bugging me ever since the dashboard re make. I can handle the change in dashboard, even though everything is geared toward you spending money in the marketplace, it doesn't bother me. What DOES bother me is parties.

Some people love them, and I can see why. You can talk to friends that aren't in your game, without having to leave your game. However, this feature comes at a cost. I have some friends that are under the impression that the ONLY way to talk to ANYBODY is to be in an xbox party. This takes away from the gameplay experience for everyone else.

For example let's say you are matchmaking in MLG, and you decide you are ok with having a random team. The 3 people you are matched up with happen to be in a party. Communication is what MLG is all about, so the fact that you cannot talk to your team completely ruins the game. This isn't limited to just MLG either. Almost every time you enter a matchmaking lobby, 90% of the people are in parties, or don't have mics.

This brings me to my second point. Custom Games: My personal passion in Halo 3. An experience that has narrowed my community of fellow custom gamers an a large scale. This is because if I join a recent players game, I either A) Get booted because the party leader is in a party and won't tell me what to do or B) Can't talk to anybody and again, have no idea what to do (unless it is a conventional gametype in which case it still gets somewhat lonely).

Ok ok... So I get can even get over that. But what my BIGGEST problem is when I or one of my friends is the party leader, and somebody joins and is in a party. It is IMPOSSIBLE to explain the game rules, or honor rules to them, and most of the time, they will try to get you to join their party. Now let me ask you, what happens when you have a lobby with about 12 or so people, and 8 of them are in a party? Of course they don't want to leave, because most likely the people inside the party all know each other. The answer is either boot them all and be stuck with a party of 4, or play the game with everybody being confused, and unable to communicate with each other.

I feel it is necessary to address the point of "push to talk" in Halo 3. Some people complain that parties help to get rid of this nuisance. I completely disagree. First of all, if you are to lazy to touch an extra button, you don't deserve to be playing xbox, and should probably be on a treadmill. Second of all, the push to talk actually helps to keep the game less chaotic. A party of 16 people with a bunch of squealers (little kids) with unlimited talking ability, is a VERY VERY BAD thing. Also, don't try to say that it helps gameplay because you don't have to press the extra button, because a party big enough to have push to talk, is most likely not playing a competitive game.

NOTE: If this subject gets a little heated, I would like to move it to debates, but for now, I think it belongs here.

aMoeba · 07-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dow

First of all, if you are to lazy to touch an extra button, you don't deserve to be playing xbox, and should probably be on a treadmill.

Win to the utmost agree.

As much as I like parties, they can become a major nuisance, I have to agree. They basically ruin matchmaking. Not so much custom games, provided you're playing with all friends, but how likely is that to happen?

Playerhata27 · 07-01-2009

You have some great points, and views that I totally agree with you on. I'm also aggravated on how difficult it is to express rules and regulations in a custom game while half the players are in parties. I try my best to notify everyone...and if they break a rule then they get the boot.

But what you don't understand, is that's mostly Halo 3 you're talking about. Microsoft/Xbox Live is no longer really focused on Halo to revive their money. In Halo 2 sure, Microsoft really only had Bungie to feed them money, seeing Halo 2 was the main reason to buy old Xbox Live. But now times have changed, and Halo 3 is the only actual casual game I see myself playing anymore.

Microsoft has multiple genres now. Most games are competitive, and don't inherit such a complex system that Halo 3 has, being from forge to custom games to matchmaking. Halo 3 is the only game I know of notifying players that some one is even in a party, or using their microphone with some other function. No other game has that technology.

Plus, parties were an overall boost for Microsoft in the long run. Newer players would love to have easy access to their friends via chatting, and not being limited to one game at a time. Hell, even I love the feature, and I'm sure you find some great uses for it also.

In the long run, it may be taking away a certain experience from Halo 3, but overall it's not an actual deficiency but rather a benefit for Microsoft.

X5 · 07-01-2009

First of all, if you are too stupid to find ways around these issues, you don't deserve to be ranting about them.

All these issues are issues with you or the player, not the party. Let me break this down:

MLG example: MLG is about playing with people you work well with, beyond communication. So they are in a party and work well, you are the odd man out. If they don't get out of their chat and you care so much about talking, then ask for an invite to their chat. You have plenty of time as it loads. If they say no, or whatever, then they are morons. Oh well.

Custom Games example: Well then the party leader is shitty host. In Halo 3, a shitty host can put up a shitty map, or boot players who are better than him/her, but we aren't allowed to veto the party host. This is why I am going to create a thread and rant about how I hate Halo 3's custom games, because they don't let people revolt agains their party leader. What happened to the good old days of mutiny?

Shitstorm of words that make no sense example: If I read correctly, you are party host and in a party chat, when someone else joins. You're party chat is full with 8 players, so the additional players can't be apart of the chat, so instead they invite you to chat with them. If I am right, then your a hypocritical moron. That is as simple as getting off your high throan, and leaving the damn chat. What's this? Oh my! You can speak to everyone! (Provided that you aren't on seperate teams, in which case I am going to make a thread and rant about how I hate Halo 3's custom games.)

Out of place argument example: It's out of place, and serves no relation to what this thread is supposed to be about.

Debate?: I will personally see to it that this doesn't become a debate topic. There is enough sorry excuses for debates in there already, I don't want to see another piece of scrap thrown ontop the litter pile.

Dow · 07-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by xX5w33ny70ddXx

First of all, if you are too stupid to find ways around these issues, you don't deserve to be ranting about them.

All these issues are issues with you or the player, not the party. Let me break this down:

MLG example: MLG is about playing with people you work well with, beyond communication. So they are in a party and work well, you are the odd man out. If they don't get out of their chat and you care so much about talking, then ask for an invite to their chat. You have plenty of time as it loads. If they say no, or whatever, then they are morons. Oh well.

Custom Games example: Well then the party leader is shitty host. In Halo 3, a shitty host can put up a shitty map, or boot players who are better than him/her, but we aren't allowed to veto the party host. This is why I am going to create a thread and rant about how I hate Halo 3's custom games, because they don't let people revolt agains their party leader. What happened to the good old days of mutiny?

Shitstorm of words that make no sense example: If I read correctly, you are party host and in a party chat, when someone else joins. You're party chat is full with 8 players, so the additional players can't be apart of the chat, so instead they invite you to chat with them. If I am right, then your a hypocritical moron. That is as simple as getting off your high throan, and leaving the damn chat. What's this? Oh my! You can speak to everyone! (Provided that you aren't on seperate teams, in which case I am going to make a thread and rant about how I hate Halo 3's custom games.)

Out of place argument example: It's out of place, and serves no relation to what this thread is supposed to be about.

Debate?: I will personally see to it that this doesn't become a debate topic. There is enough sorry excuses for debates in there already, I don't want to see another piece of scrap thrown ontop the litter pile.

Damn dude. Did you come in here PLANNING on being an asshole? You responded in such a hostile way that I can't even see what point you were trying to make.

X5 · 07-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dow

Damn dude. Did you come in here PLANNING on being an asshole? You responded in such a hostile way that I can't even see what point you were trying to make.

Going Off-Topic in your own thread? Ouch, bad form. Regardless, this comment shows that I am clearly doing my job right. On a douchebag scale, what would you give me from a 1 to a 10?
But all snide remarks aside, you don't see my point because you don't want to. The fact of the matter is, I'm right and you're bitching. The end. You complain about something with a narrow mindset, keeping only Halo and yourself in mind. Of course it is easier to complain about problems than finding solutions, but solutions do exist and I presented them. It's your fault for not moving past your own "I'm right" ego. Clearly you didn't create this thread to hear the opinion of the opposition, you created it to unload your pent up frustration. Congrats, you succeeded. Now if you excuse me, I'm going to go talk to my friends in a party.

Sotha Sil156 · 07-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by xX5w33ny70ddXx

Shitstorm of words that make no sense example: If I read correctly, you are party host and in a party chat, when someone else joins. You're party chat is full with 8 players, so the additional players can't be apart of the chat, so instead they invite you to chat with them. If I am right, then your a hypocritical moron. That is as simple as getting off your high throan, and leaving the damn chat. What's this? Oh my! You can speak to everyone! (Provided that you aren't on seperate teams, in which case I am going to make a thread and rant about how I hate Halo 3's custom games.)

I do believe you translated this passage incorrectly. Your reaction to what you thought it meant was correct, but it isn't that hard to understand. At least to me it isn't.

What it probably means is that Dow is party leader of a twelve-person party. Eight of the people are in a party together. They aren't going to leave, considering that they all know each other and really don't care about Dow or the other three people. Dow is either stuck playing a game in which two thirds of the players don't understand or boots them so that they may now play the game correctly, but there's only four people in the party and the game doesn't have enough players to really be fun.

As for what I feel about the "party problem," I've never really encountered problems in Halo as bad as Dow has, but that may just be because I only play Customs and only in a relatively small group of friends and their friends. I do agree with you that they do more good than harm, especially when I'm playing single-player games, matchmaking in other games, or even in Halo, am forging alone.

X5 · 07-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sotha Sil156

Wow. Aside from how everything that you said was completely hostile to this discussion, you did nothing to help further it other than by attempting to completely destroy the ground Dow was standing on.

About the passage quoted, you translated it wrong. Your reaction to what you thought it meant was correct, but it isn't that hard to understand.

What it probably means is that Dow is party leader of a twelve-person party. Eight of the people are in a party together. They aren't going to leave, considering that they all know each other and really don't care about Dow or the other three people. Dow is either stuck playing a game in which two thirds of the players don't understand or boots them so that they may now play the game correctly, but there's only four people in the party and the game doesn't have enough players to really be fun.

I do agree with you that the parties do more good than harm. I would never get rid of them.

In which case it is as simple as sending them a very hostile message telling them to get their ass out of the party, before their mother's sexual decency is brought into question. Sometimes the choices are tough, but standards must be upheld. You are the party leader, in the United States of You. You are the alpha, the omega, and the person in charge. If they can't accept your terms, then you have every right to boot them, one by one starting with the party chat leader. He's gone, and if that doesn't get the message across, knock off another person. Even if they never get the picture, you successfully broke the group of assholes up, forcing them to invite one another into a new custom game. All the while you sit pretty atop of the player roster, perfectly capable of inviting new players.

But let's focus on what really matters here: Party Chats in Gears of War 2. If something exists that allows me to tell my teammates where the enemy is as I fly around in my death cam without having to pick up a phone, it's above all criticism.

Draxfear · 07-01-2009

I do agree with you about the top half of your essay. Its really annoying how everyone thinks that private chat doesn't exsist now. I'm currently silver til ODST comes out so its annoying when 1 person asks me to join a party with only them in it and I hav to send a message saying "I can't! I'm silver!". And don't just say get gold lol

ZANDER1994 · 07-01-2009

Sweeny is right. The party application is not the problem, it's specific people; including your friends. I for one love it. I like to just sit at the dashboard and talk to people sometimes because I don't feel like wasting minutes on my phone. It's even better than a phone, because I can talk to ALL my friends at the same time. Plus, dude, you are saying it's stupid because you can't talk to the people in the parties. THAT'S THE POINT OF THE PARTY. I don't want random people talking to me sometimes. Sometimes I just want to talk to my friends about something private that I don't want a random person on live to hear.

Saying parties are stupid is like saying it's stupid that people want to just talk to their friends, not you.