Infection Necrubis- City of the Dead

[Shroomz]

I was one of the guys that played this game/map with you last night.

Originality - Oh God. Not another city map. Not original at all. Weapon caches? COME ON!!!

Aesthetics - There was a lot of interlocking. Didn't see any geomerging. Did a decent job on layouts and various buildings.

Game play - I applaud you for making it more challenging for humans. I applaud you for making it limited ammo... but seriously. I played last night and humans need SOME chance. Two examples.
1.) I was in a bathroom at the gas station. Room is literally a little smaller than one full square block. I was standing on a column on its side in there, which I guess was the toilet. The zombie had to crouch under a quarter wall, so I was looking down on him. Fired a magnum and mauler at his head and the zombie didn't die. It was point blank range practically. Couldn't really miss since I was almost standing on top of his head.
2.) I was in a hidden basement of another building. Zombie had to drop into the room. There was a column on it's side at the bottom or a tall block that the zombie would drop down onto. I was standing next to that block and it took 6 mauler shots to take him down from below him. Seriously... 6 mauler shots up the arse to kill him.

I don't know the actual physics of the game and what a weapons power is actually at, but a mauler looks like it should be the equivalent of a shotgun at point blank range and should take down just about anything. Even if a mauler is slightly weaker, a mauler and a magnum should definitely take down anything at point blank range whether it was a headshot or not.
3.) I unloaded half a SMG clip into a zombie and I got killed.

Considering that very few people got the power weapons, those that did... survived the longest. While you claim you had full parties most of last night, what you failed to mention was that many people quit last night because of those settings. We lost 4-5 people just about every round. It soon became apparent where the ideal camping spot was since there was only one way to get on top of that building and I'm pretty sure that's where most people ended up by the end of the night.

Improvements - Given the fact that majority of people will get stuck with weaker weapons. You may want to double check the settings. Humans need a chance to survive. Most fights took place within bulltrue distance and humans lost 99% of the time.

Get rid of that damn camping spot on top of the zombie spawn building. People sitting up there with a BR or better were owning for long periods of time. I despise maps that pull that crap.

Get rid of that weapon store/cache. People that were grabbing the power weapons usually grabbed a lot of the ammo from similar items next to it. Place weapons in each building instead. That way others have a chance at getting them and players that get there first don't whore the best weapons.

I like the layouts of some building, but interlocking and merging could be a little cleaner. Decent enough job on the map itself.

[Something.]

Shroomz, I can guarantee that one of two things happened with the mauler/pistol incident:

1: Xbox live made you its bitch.
2: When dual wielding the power of each weapon is reduced by 20-30%. So a dual wielded mauler not killing at a semi close range really isn't a surprise, not even when adding in the pistol damage.

[MlgObiWan]

I too playtested the map last night, and I remember you being one of the more complainy people Shroomz. The map is excellent in my opinion and very fair gameplay. You must have wretched aim or major lag because I was taking out zombies with a single magnum shot to the head. And yeah some people did quit during the playtest but more always joined and a full party of 16 was kept for the majority of the time whcih is a huge accomplishment if you asked me. The people playing were more than entertained, and it was only the whiners like you who quit.
The camping spot you're talking about was nearly as bad as you make it sound. I killed the guy up there without too much trouble, and I only remember one or two times that people even went up there for the entire two hours. So no, most people where not there at the end of the night...
I personally like the idea of all the weapons being in the weapons shop as it's what's really unique about this city map. If he put weapons in all different buildings you'd have much more troubles with camping. I'd like to see you put out a map half as decent as this one, there's no way you could keep a full party of 16 like he did for so long.

Anyways enough ranting- sorry, I just hate it when people playtest and whine that things could be better when infact if they had it their way, the map would be much worse.

As for the map, the gameplay was great, good job on preparing it for all gametypes, and all the interlocking ad geomerging I noticed was very clean and smooth. Kudos. As for constructive criticism, maybe there could be more ammo in the weapons shop, but then again it still worked out pretty great the way it is. I just like to have a fully supplied BR lol.

10/10

[II cyanide II]

love the idea of the ammo run! and i also hate infection when it is just camp, camp, camp great idea to do that, everything looks smooth and balanced and overall a very good fun map

[Shroomz]

Originally Posted by Something.

2: When dual wielding the power of each weapon is reduced by 20-30%. So a dual wielded mauler not killing at a semi close range really isn't a surprise, not even when adding in the pistol damage.

Thanks for the explanation, Something. That would explain some things.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

I remember you being one of the more complainy people Shroomz.

Nice to know I was remembered among the many that were complaining about the same thing last night.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

The map is excellent in my opinion and very fair gameplay.

The map itself is decent. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's excellent. It's definitely one of the better city maps, but then again... I'm not a fan of them.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

You must have wretched aim or major lag because I was taking out zombies with a single magnum shot to the head.

I admittedly am not the best aim, but like I said... there is no missing at point blank range. At least Something's explanation helped a bit.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

And yeah some people did quit during the playtest but more always joined and a full party of 16 was kept for the majority of the time whcih is a huge accomplishment if you asked me. The people playing were more than entertained, and it was only the whiners like you who quit.

The fact that it was a full party has more to do with lack of options than because of the map. It was the only infection game that was going on amongst my friends and recent games lists... I had a good number of people from those lists join that game and leave during that time... all of which complained about how difficult it was to kill zombies in small quarters. Also, I played the full game and quit after we got back to the game lobby... so stop talking out of your arse.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

The camping spot you're talking about was nearly as bad as you make it sound. I killed the guy up there without too much trouble, and I only remember one or two times that people even went up there for the entire two hours. So no, most people where not there at the end of the night...

Get enough people up there at one time, and it will be a problem. The reason why there weren't people there all the time was because of the turnover after each round. We kept losing people and gaining people.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

I personally like the idea of all the weapons being in the weapons shop as it's what's really unique about this city map.

Wtf is so unique about a weapon cache on a city map?

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

If he put weapons in all different buildings you'd have much more troubles with camping.

You obviously have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You put them in different areas, it divides the people up and leaves them more vulnerable to attack. I believe that 25% were zombies, so in a full game that makes it 4 on 1... actually 3 on 1 since the 4th zombie can't get out of the zombie spawn until the block to jump on appears after 30 or so seconds. Mindless posting like yours is the problem with this forum.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

I'd like to see you put out a map half as decent as this one, there's no way you could keep a full party of 16 like he did for so long.

Lack of infection games because of the holiday weekend is what kept the party full. I think the fact that so many people quit says more about the map than anything. According to Bungie.net, 6 of the 16 people listed DNF. Considering that they only show the last 16 people, that would mean more people quit to make room for those people. Since at least 4 of those DNF were friends of mine that were in a party with me and joined after space opened up, that would mean at least 10 people quit during the game. To me, that says a lot more about the game than anything.

Originally Posted by MlgObiWan

Anyways enough ranting- sorry, I just hate it when people playtest and whine that things could be better when infact if they had it their way, the map would be much worse.

Do your lips hurt from kissing so much ass? Considering you joined the forum just to reply in this thread makes me believe that you're either the OP... or a friend of the OP, which makes your opinion biased and invalid.

Here's some facts based on Bungie.net stats from that game I was in.

Breakdown on kills by weapon... 244 Total kills
Energy Sword - 97 ( 40% )
Battle Rifle - 50 ( 20% )
Magnum - 34 ( 14% )
Rocket Launcher - 19 ( 8% )
Sniper Rifle - 12 ( 5% )
Melee - 9 ( 4% )
Shotgun - 6 ( 2% )
Sub Machine Gun - 5 ( 2% )
Assault Rifle - 4 ( 2% )
Spike Grenade - 2 ( 1% )
Flame Grenade - 2 ( 1% )
Mauler - 2 ( 1% )
Trip Mine - 1
Guardians - 1

The people that got the power weapons got the most kills. Number of magnum kills being so high makes sense since most people were stuck with that weapon or held it as one of their dual weapons. Guy with 2nd highest score had Energy Sword kills as his highest, which means he had most of his kills as a zombie.

Mander obviously came in first, but here was his breakdown...

Battle Rifle - 21
Energy Sword - 10
Sniper Rifle - 9
Shotgun - 6
Spike Grenade - 2
SMG - 1

He's only got 1 kill with something that wasn't a power weapon. He should try playing his map without a power weapon and see how fair he thinks it is.

If I remember correctly, there were only 2-3 BRs, 1 Rocket Launcher, 1 shotgun, and 1 Sniper Rifle. Usually the people that got there first took two power weapons, so most people got stuck with the dual weapons or just their starting magnum. This is why I suggest putting weapons in different buildings instead of all in one.

[spartin2000]

Originally Posted by Dark Brier

1000/10.!

hey dude its not a good idea to overrate a map like that but anyways this is a good city map except ever since "new toujane" there has been more city maps than usual also just a suggestion try adding some scenery to the streets like flipped over cars, a couple of fountains here and there but its just a suggestion you don't have to do it. i'll give it a 4/5

[Mander]

Hey Shroomz, thanks for the constructive criticism. Your giving some really intense feedback. And yes, Mlg ObiWan is a friend of mine so his opinion is slightly biased, but I'd say yours is too. You're definatley exaggerrating the amount of people that quit, saying stuff like "I think that the amount of people that quit really speaks the truth about this map"- a little unnessecary don't you think? There was a full party of 16 for the majority of the time, and not that many people quit. Besides, it was an open party, and I have yet to see a full game be played with that many people and not have anybody quit.

I also would like to note that I hardly remember anybody complaining, I don't even realy remember you saying much. The only complaints I heard where about the gametype, not the map, and that's because some people only like instant kill zombies. But I think the gametype works great because as I mentioned before- the gameplay is fair for both the zombies and humans. The humans and zombies were winning pretty equally in those playtests.

And yeah, I'm aware that a city infection map is not the most original idea out there, but hey-I really wanted to make a city the way I wanted it to be, and what I thought would be the best, so I did.

But I have taken your criticism seriously and I just finished a v2 tweaked version of this map. I'll update the download link so I don't have to spam the forums with a new thread. Here's what I fixed:

-I made another way onto the zombie house roof (the camping area you were complaining about.)

- I added more ammo to the weapons shop
>Added an extra BR
>Added spikers
>Gave maulers an extra clip.

- I made the blue building into a church.

- Nothing was taken out or deleted to make the above changes.

- And I tweaked a few other things for more balanced gameplay.

As far as the gametype goes, I like it the way it is, but if you have a problem with it, by all means go ahead and play whatever game you want on it instead- you can change the settings to your own preferences.

This will be the final version of the map, as those were the only concerns I had about it. You're entitled your own opinion, so I hope you'll be satisfied with the changes I made as I think it's the best that this map can get for you.
I do my best to please even the hardest of customers.

Once again, thanks for the feedback (I'm impressed that you actually spent time to dig up the game stats), but please don't exxaggerate the facts. More people where definately pleased about the map than those complaining and you make it sound like way more people quit than actually did.

[Dark Brier]

Wow, Shroomz, chill out man- your killing this thread with your negativity. If this map isn't your style then don't play it! You don't need to give such negative responses to such a great map.

You make it clear that no matter how hard one tries, you can never please everbody.

I'm pleased thpough- this map DELIVERS!

[o0SuperSamuri0o]

Looks like an amazing map. I will play and download and get back to you with better feedback. It sounds awesome though, how you have to go on "Ammo runs", that's definately something unique about this map, and it sounds like it would prevent camping very well! Nice job!

[Shroomz]

Originally Posted by Mander

You're definatley exaggerrating the amount of people that quit, saying stuff like "I think that the amount of people that quit really speaks the truth about this map"- a little unnessecary don't you think? There was a full party of 16 for the majority of the time, and not that many people quit. Besides, it was an open party, and I have yet to see a full game be played with that many people and not have anybody quit.
...
Once again, thanks for the feedback (I'm impressed that you actually spent time to dig up the game stats), but please don't exxaggerate the facts. More people where definately pleased about the map than those complaining and you make it sound like way more people quit than actually did.

What are you basing your numbers on? We had 15 players listed at the end of Left 4 Dead, 1 of which was a DNF... so we had 14 players going into the start of your game when you were promoted to party leader. 6 of those 14 names were not on the list of players at the end of your game. There were also 6 players listed that DNF. That makes 12 players that quit during your game... at the least since we can only see the last 16 players of a game on the Bungie stats. Therefore I actually underestimated the numbers, not exaggerated them.

Originally Posted by Mander

I also would like to note that I hardly remember anybody complaining, I don't even realy remember you saying much. The only complaints I heard where about the gametype, not the map, and that's because some people only like instant kill zombies. But I think the gametype works great because as I mentioned before- the gameplay is fair for both the zombies and humans. The humans and zombies were winning pretty equally in those playtests.

People were complaining... even before I went into a party. It's probably pretty difficult to hear them when you were usually one of the first people to grab two power weapons, leaving everyone else to become zombies pretty quickly. You can't hear complaints after you're still alive and the others have become zombies.

Originally Posted by Mander

And yeah, I'm aware that a city infection map is not the most original idea out there, but hey-I really wanted to make a city the way I wanted it to be, and what I thought would be the best, so I did.

My beef is not with city/ town maps. Its originality. People want to build a city map, thats fine. With sandbox you have a higher budget and number of pieces than Foundry, a map larger than Sandtrap, and people are being as original as forging on Guardian. People are building 2-3 story building on Sandbox, when you can build 8 story buildings. 2-3 story buildings were fine on Foundry... you were limited to that. If you're gonna build a city, then build a city with tall buildings and skyscrapers or something. Stop forging like you're on Foundry and start forging like you're on Sandbox.

Originally Posted by Mander

-I made another way onto the zombie house roof (the camping area you were complaining about.)

That's a great addition, then.

Originally Posted by Mander

- I added more ammo to the weapons shop
>Added an extra BR
>Added spikers
>Gave maulers an extra clip.

To be honest, that was completely unnecessary, if you ask me. A simple tweaking of the game type would have made short range weapons more playable... and like I said, spread those weapons out more so people didn't hoard all the power weapons.

Originally Posted by Mander

As far as the gametype goes, I like it the way it is, but if you have a problem with it, by all means go ahead and play whatever game you want on it instead- you can change the settings to your own preferences.

Like I said, try playing your own game without a power weapon and see how well you fare.

Case and point...
You spent all that time building small little hiding places and stuff to fight zombies inside the buildings, right? Your game settings seem to indicate settings for a mid-long distance game. In other words, you would stand a better chance staying in the streets than to go into a building. If you have a short ranged weapon and go in a building, you're dead.

Now I consider magnums more of a mid range weapon due to it's accuracy, but we'll include it in this argument...

Here are all the short range weapon stats, since majority of the players will be stuck with these weapons in a full game like we participated in...

Energy Sword - 97 ( 40% )

Magnum - 34 ( 14% )
Melee - 9 ( 4% )
Shotgun - 6 ( 2% )
Sub Machine Gun - 5 ( 2% )
Assault Rifle - 4 ( 2% )
Mauler - 2 ( 1% )

Majority of those magnum kills were headshots on the streets.This would seem to indicate that within the confines of the buildings, you're pretty much screwed with these weapons.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm ragging on your map. I thought the map was good, not my type, but good. 95% of the jackasses in this forum are worthless. Most of these people rating your map... didn't download when posting... only forged through your map... and based everything on pictures. To them it's something like a swimsuit or popularity contest. They give ratings based on how it looks or who you are. To be honest, they're of no help at all and shouldn't even post.

I, on the other hand, played the map with you, the way you intended it to be played... and I think the game type failed in a full party for the map. I even provided stats and numbers to back up my arguments... including my argument over number of people that quit. I suggest everyone play in a full party and not take a power weapon and see how well they do before criticizing my opinions because in a full party, chances are that 8 of the 12 humans will think it's unfair and the other 4 will have 1-2 long ranged weapons. That's why I came up with the suggestion of placing a long ranged weapon in each building so more people have a chance with at least one long ranged weapon. Whether or not you choose to take what I have said to heart is up to you. You can live in that little rose-colored glass world that everyone else is painting... or you can see the reality of things.