[Hadokenchild]

Originally Posted by LIGHTSOUT225

Ya know, there's a ton of positives to this map, and a lot things that I like. But I also see some pretty glaring issues. Time for the map's first real criticism (with love)

*Note: I only really go into such detail on map's that I feel have a ton of potential, and ones that I really could think could be all-time with some tweaks (this is based off of a forge-through. No games have been played yet. But I do have a ton of experience and the criticism Im going to offer is more along the lines of what I feel to be basic principles to map design that can be pinpointed pre-testing..though I do plan on testing).

I appreciate the thought you put into the layout, the lines of sight, and the larger-than forge feel the whole map gives. But I also feel you way overdid it on the aesthetics, and that some budget could be spent in more suitable ways.

The middle structure feels pretty awkward. I want to comment on the Rockets/Overshield spawns.. but without tests I don't feel comfortable. Moving on, I don't think one should have to jump to get onto the central structure. I think the combination of all the cubbies/crevices down low, with the low ceilings might be restricting on player flow thoughout that structure. I think the structure should probably have at least 2 ways to get on top of it (on opposing sides) that don't require a jump. This is critical to mainstream maps, and if you are planning on attempting to get this into matchmaking, you should aim to make the map as user friendly as possible.

I think the teleporters, while giving that nostalgic Coagulation feel, are poor design choices in their current form. With all the aesthetics used in the other aspects of the map, I'd bet you could easily muster up roughly a $100 (maybe more) to both work on the central structure to improve its flow and intuitiveness, and to improve the receiver node locations. Build some small semi-structures up around those to give them more of a sense of purpose. While I understand their location and the LOS that is, and more importantly isn't available at their locations, they still feel out of place. These structures do not have to be elaborate by any means, and could probably be done with less than 5-6 items each.

The vehicle placement behind the grass base doesn't seem very sound.. The semi-circle 15 yds from the base doesn't match the feel of the rest of the map's cohesiveness. The vehicle spawns in the blue base are much more sound. I know you can't exactly just throw the grass base vehicles inside, but Id like to see a more cohesive unit (base+vehicles) overall, if that makes sense. Hug the mongeese to the walls more. Perhaps group them together on the same side and do the same with the Hog and Ghost on the other. You could play around with it, there's a few different ways to go about it. Also, mongeese on 90s but the Ghost on 30s? Bear in mind the mongeese on Valhalla are on 10s respawn timers. Yours could very easily drop down to 30s, if not lower. Mongeese don't tend to get blown up as much as other vehicles do. Somethin to think about. That's pretty quick for a Ghost respawn as well, usually, but I can't really comment on how that particular aspect will affect gameplay without tests.

I do LOVE the Blue base's layout though. Very, very nice. Large, intuitive, pretty. However, the 2 side structures with the carbines on them require a crouch jump to get on top of. I already addressed this a bit earlier. Needs a ramp like the side structures for grass base.

Overall, I think the map has a TON of potential, but I think you may have missed the mark on some parts as well. You have a good idea of what you're doing in forge, obviously, but I fear all the overdone aesthetics are ultimately holding the map back. Well, not the aesthetics themselves, but the lack of money due to the aesthetics.

I'd really LOVE to see some changes made before you submit to ATLAS. I think you'd see far better results, and could end up with one of the top Sandbox maps so far.

Cheers, sir.

I appreciate your points and I understand your concerns, but there is a method to my madness as I've somewhat covered in the pic descriptions.

1 - The small areas under the middle structure are only about as long as a warthog. So while it is small, it allows the bottom to breathe a bit more than long wall spaces that ultimately could get you killed. These areas have proved extremely useful in games of KOTH. As far as getting to the top goes the structure has 4, 2 each side. I really didn't have much choice to make the "feet" jumpable. Geomerging would have made it too low, using the small corners underneath made them stick out too far and affected vehicle use, and interlocking wedges just ended up adding a gap at each corner that players could get stuck on. So I went with the hop because it's it's an immediately recognizable action to take when you come up to it. The Rockets/OS spans are very open and can be covered with good BRs and sniping.

2 - I think you're only the second person to have issues with the teleporters. Leaving the reciever nodes in the open was pretty neccessary. There needed to be a risk/reward for having the teleporters not only being 1/3 the distance accross the map but also being so close to both the Splazer and the Missile Pod. And with blue base's teleporter completely covered and the grass base's having limited LOS I didn't feel it would balance them out by making them safe on both ends. Also during testing, people getting sniped at the reciever nodes didn't happen too often. If need be I could upload some sessions to FS if you want a looksee.

3 - I will admit I did screw up the vehicles a bit. I laeft them all at their default times, either what was originaly on Sandbox, or manualy placed there. Their positions were just so they couldn't all be easily destroyed, as well as not allowing too many opportunities for someone to be able to jump on top of a vehicle then up to the top of the base.

While I understand your view on eliminating some aesthetics to free up space for other things, almost every aesthetic piece has a function. The exception is the "Relic" spire, but that was made out of remaining pieces of the original Sandbox map that I wanted to use rather than delete them.

All in all believe me when I say that most of your concerns were mulled over while the map was still being built and as testing has showed, doesn't really affect gameplay that much. I do appreciate you pointing out the vehivle issue cuz I completely missed that. Hopefully you can get some decent games on this and come back with a full gameplay review. Thanks again for your time and attention.